Where does it take place?
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Stratego — 11 years ago(September 22, 2014 05:40 PM)
Jasmine, Rapunzel and Anna respectively come from fictional countries called Agrabah, Corona and Arendelle, so I don't think those nationalities are correct. I also don't think that a meeting place in Epcot counts as canon.
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otness_e — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 05:07 PM)
The settlements themselves may be fictional, but it is implied that their locations were in real countries, like Corona was part of Germany (see Eugene and Rapunzel's cameo in Frozen). Also, Arendelle had the priest explicitly coronating Elsa in Norwegian, meaning it was pretty clear Arendelle was in Norway. And as far as Agrabah, it's clear from the opening song that it took place on the Arabian Peninsula, and the presence of a river near Agrabah, maybe it being at least close enough to the ocean to dump Aladdin into it a short distance from the palace, suggests it is either in Iraq or otherwise in Jordan.
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otness_e — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 05:38 PM)
No, it's not, it's implied that those are fictional countries set in an alternative world that shares some similarities with our world.
Actually, in the case of Frozen, they weren't fictional countries at all. Heck, the dignitaries were even explicitly referred to as being from France, Britain, Spain, and Germany. Heck, Weselton is actually a real area in Germany. And considering Eugene and Rapunzel were actually among the attendees at the coronation, apparently with the German dignitary's men, it's pretty clear Corona was in Germany.
As far as Arendelle, considering they explicitly used Norwegian instead of, I don't know, actually making up a language like how Star Trek made up the Klingon language or how Star Wars made up Huttese, that should be a huge hint that Arendelle is indeed in Norway. The art book even explicitly identified it as being in Norway.
And as far as Agrabah, you've got to be kidding me, the opening song explicitly mentioned it was on the Arabian Peninsula. It's even in the title of the song, Arabian Night. Even if you argue that the locations are in an alternate world, that DOESN'T mean the countries the locations were set at were fictional.
This isn't like Pokmon, where the regions are actually different from their real world counterparts, some even incorporating locations not even in the location a region is based on (for instance, Pastoria City being based on Boston, even though Sinnoh itself was actually based on Hokkaido, which are each in two completely different countries, specifically America and Japan, respectively). -
Stratego — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 05:55 PM)
And considering Eugene and Rapunzel were actually among the attendees at the coronation, apparently with the German dignitary's men, it's pretty clear Corona was in Germany.
Or Corona is just near Germany or it's just a simple cameo you shouldn't break your head over.
As far as Arendelle, considering they explicitly used Norwegian instead of, I don't know, actually making up a language
They also speak English in Agrabah, China and all those other fictional and non-fictional countries. It's an alternative world where they also happen to speak Norwegian.
And as far as Agrabah, you've got to be kidding me, the opening song explicitly mentioned it was on the Arabian Peninsula.
Oh yeah, is that a country? Is Arabian Peninsulan a nationality?
This isn't like Pokmon,
No, it isn't, so why even mention it. -
otness_e — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 06:10 PM)
Or Corona is just near Germany or it's just a simple cameo you shouldn't break your head over.
When their presence is directly acknowledged as having happened in the Official Art Book, no, it's not a mere cameo. Did Hunchback of Notre Dame acknowledge Belle's cameo as canon? No, it did not, and that was from the commentary.
They also speak English in Agrabah, China and all those other fictional and non-fictional countries. It's an alternative world where they also happen to speak Norwegian.
You know full well that that's called Translation Convention. Lots of films, even those that are otherwise of the nonfiction genre, have them speaking English even in instances where they could not have spoken the language.
Oh yeah, is that a country? Is Arabian Peninsulan a nationality?
It's a region at least, and considering the only three rivers converge near Iraq, that narrows it down a bit. I think it was also indicated that the river was the Jordan river.
No, it isn't, so why even mention it.
Because you claimed all the countries were fictional in an alternate universe, something that fits Pokmon more. -
Stratego — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 07:49 PM)
When their presence is directly acknowledged as having happened in the Official Art Book, no, it's not a mere cameo.
Why would that mean it's not a "mere cameo"? They appeared in the movie for a split second and weren't even acknowledged, it was nothing more than a cameo. It doesn't imply anything more.
You know full well that that's called Translation Convention.
And you know full well that Arendelle doesn't exist in our world, so it's very much possible that in the alternative world of Frozen, Norwegian can also be spoken outside of Norway or in some fictional nation inspired by Norway. And in the movie, Arendelle is clearly presented as a country and kingdom, not as some part of Norway.
It's a region at least
But it's not a nation(ality). Aladdin and the rest are Agrabahian (or whatever), even if it's supposedly on the Arabian Peninsula.
Because you claimed all the countries were fictional in an alternate universe, something that fits Pokmon more.
And it also fits the movies mentioned. -
otness_e — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 08:15 PM)
Why would that mean it's not a "mere cameo"? They appeared in the movie for a split second and weren't even acknowledged, it was nothing more than a cameo. It doesn't imply anything more.
Well, for starters, if it was a mere cameo that wasn't even intended to be canon, they wouldn't mention it in the art book. I definitely know that ET wasn't acknowledged at all in the Episode I Visual Dictionary for Star Wars, even though he had a cameo in that movie.
And you know full well that Arendelle doesn't exist in our world, so it's very much possible that in the alternative world of Frozen, Norwegian can also be spoken outside of Norway or in some fictional nation inspired by Norway. And in the movie, Arendelle is clearly presented as a country and kingdom, not as some part of Norway.
And maybe I should remind you that there is such a thing as a kingdom that is more like a small-scale city than an actual country.
But it's not a nation(ality). Aladdin and the rest are Agrabahian (or whatever), even if it's supposedly on the Arabian Peninsula.
Yeah, and it's also in or around Iraq, if it being the inspiration is anything to go by, and they referred to the river as Jordan.
And it also fits the movies mentioned.
Not really. They'd have different names and languages if that was the case, like making up a language entirely (think Klingon). -
Stratego — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 08:30 PM)
Well, for starters, if it was a mere cameo that wasn't even intended to be canon, they wouldn't mention it in the art book.
They were in it for one split second and it was not mentioned that Corona was in Germany, so it doesn't mean anything. It was in the art book, because it's a nice easter egg for the fans.
nd maybe I should remind you that there is such a thing as a kingdom that is more like a small-scale city than an actual country.
What's your point? That's even more proof that it isn't Norway.
Yeah, and it's also in or around Iraq, if it being the inspiration is anything to go by, and they referred to the river as Jordan.
Doesn't make their nationality Iraqi, or whatever the other poster said.
Not really. They'd have different names and languages if that was the case
It's an alternative world with fictional countries, because in our world there are no such countries as Corona, Arendelle or Agrabah. -
otness_e — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 08:44 PM)
They were in it for one split second and it was not mentioned that Corona was in Germany, so it doesn't mean anything. It was in the art book, because it's a nice easter egg for the fans.
No, but it WAS shown that Eugene and Rapunzel were accompanying the German Diplomat. And again, if it was a nice easter egg for the fans, they won't mention it in the art book. Was ET mentioned in the Episode I Visual Dictionary?
What's your point? That's even more proof that it isn't Norway.
Nope, it's set in Norway. Used Norwegian, hence Norway.
Doesn't make their nationality Iraqi, or whatever the other poster said.
But it DOES mean that that's most likely where Agrabah is actually set.
It's an alternative world with fictional countries, because in our world there are no such countries as Corona, Arendelle or Agrabah.
No, but there were obviously such countries as Germany, Norway, and Iraq, which is clearly where those places were at.
And let me remind you that a kingdom doesn't just simply equate to a country. Just look at Romeo and Juliet, for example. That was set in Verona, and had a prince, meaning it was a kingdom, yet from the way the play was shown, it was clear Escolas was the true ruler of the kingdom. -
Stratego — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 09:17 PM)
And again, if it was a nice easter egg for the fans, they won't mention it in the art book.
That's a rule you just made up. There are no such restrictions.
Nope, it's set in Norway. Used Norwegian, hence Norway.
You are aware that certain languages are spoken in different countries? They speak German in Switzerland, does that mean it's part of Germany? No. It's set in the kingdom of Arendelle, which is clearly its own country
But it DOES mean that that's most likely where Agrabah is actually set.
Not at all. It perhaps mean that Iraq was an inspiration, but it's clearly set in Agrabah.
No, but there were obviously such countries as Germany, Norway, and Iraq, which is clearly where those places were at.
No, those places were at the fictional countries of Corona, Arendelle and Agrabah. Those real life countries might have been inspirations.
And let me remind you that a kingdom doesn't just simply equate to a country. Just look at Romeo and Juliet, for example. That was set in Verona, and had a prince, meaning it was a kingdom, yet from the way the play was shown, it was clear Escolas was the true ruler of the kingdom.
You don't have to remind me of anything, I clearly know more about the concept of countries and nations than you do. Wasn't Escolas actually the prince of Verona, meaning he was the true ruler in name and in fact? In reality, though, I believe Verona was part of the Republic of Venice. I don't understand your point. -
otness_e — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 09:40 PM)
That's a rule you just made up. There are no such restrictions.
If there were no such restrictions, please explain why the Visual Dictionary for Episode I of Star Wars failed to mention the ET species in there? That's the same thing, and considering the ET senator was clearly just a cameo appearance, that should make it very clear that his absence was specifically because he was a cameo and not relegated to the film. And no, it's not a rule I made up. Just look at the Visual Dictionary for Episode I of Star Wars, heck, even the Complete Visual Dictionary for Star Wars.
You are aware that certain languages are spoken in different countries? They speak German in Switzerland, does that mean it's part of Germany? No. It's set in the kingdom of Arendelle, which is clearly its own country
Actually, no, it is indeed set in Norway. Norwegian is exclusive to Norway, unlike French, Spanish, German, or English. And if that's not enough, they specifically reference fjords in the film, which are very prevalent in Norway. If it walks like a duck talks like a duck and looks like a duck, it's a duck.
Not at all. It perhaps mean that Iraq was an inspiration, but it's clearly set in Agrabah.
No, what would be simply an inspiration is if they had based a fictional settlement in Japan on, say, London. Sort of like how various Pokmon movies double locations in various countries while the region is pretty clearly set in a region based in Japan (and in the case of Unova and Kalos, New York and France, respectively).
You don't have to remind me of anything, I clearly know more about the concept of countries and nations than you do. Wasn't Escolas actually the prince of Verona, meaning he was the true ruler in name and in fact? In reality, though, I believe Verona was part of the Republic of Venice. I don't understand your point.
Which is part of Italy, which is the point. -
Stratego — 11 years ago(October 31, 2014 06:51 AM)
If there were no such restrictions, please explain why the Visual Dictionary for Episode I of Star Wars failed to mention the ET species in there?
Star Wars has nothing to do with this movie. One person doing something, doesn't mean another person will do the same.
Actually, no, it is indeed set in Norway. Norwegian is exclusive to Norway,
Actually, no, there are very small communities in the US where Norwegian is spoken. But it doesn't matter, because in the FICTIONAL world of Arendelle, Norwegian is spoken outside of Norway or Norway might not even exist. The Norwegian language is never identified as such in the movie.
No, what would be simply an inspiration is if they had based a fictional settlement in Japan on, say, London.
You don't know what the word inspiration means either. The animators may have seen some images of Iraq, liked it and used the images to design the country of Agrabah. That's called inspiration.
Sort of like how various Pokmon movies
For the last time, fnck off with Pokemon.
Which is part of Italy, which is the point.
No, the point is that Italy wasn't a country before 1861. Do you know anything, except Pokemon? -
otness_e — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 05:02 PM)
If the episode Metal Fish as well as Eric's reference to a Flowerhaven in the first film, possibly also the map in Return to the Sea are anything to go by, Eric's kingdom is somewhere in Scandinavia, most likely Denmark. Besides, while there were probably some stuff that point to a Mediterranean climate, Ariel's peasant dress contradicts that, as it has very long sleeves, which suggests a colder climate (Her day dress would be sleeveless), and even Vanessa, who had a sleeveless dress, wore a cloak over her, and the dress looked Scandinavian as well (heck, it was the same type of dress Anna and Elsa wore). That grotto was privately owned by Eric, which may mean the plants and animals (the Flamingoes especially) were imports. It's not uncommon, as the Roman Empire had exotic plants and animals in various palaces, some not even native to the region.
Also, King Triton is NOT the same as Triton from Mythology, nor is Poseidon the same one. In fact, Triton's father is named Poseidon, yet his grandfather is named Neptune, which BTW, in mythology, Neptune and Poseidon are actually the same guy. Had it been Greek Mythology, Triton's grandpa would be Chronos, not Neptune.
As far as the time period, since Ariel is strongly implied to be responsible for the creation of the original tale in the episode Metal Fish, and assuming the TV Series takes place a year before the film, I'd say about 1836, give or take. -
Stratego — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 05:27 PM)
If the episode Metal Fish as well as Eric's reference to a Flowerhaven in the first film, possibly also the map in Return to the Sea are anything to go by, Eric's kingdom is somewhere in Scandinavia
Uhm, European royalty would often marry other royalty from the other side of the continent, it doesn't say anything about the location of Eric's kingdom.
Besides, while there were probably some stuff that point to a Mediterranean climate, Ariel's peasant dress contradicts that, as it has very long sleeves, which suggests a colder
As if the animators are going to think about details like that, they just draw what they like. But just google for pictures using something like "Italian peasant girl/woman" and you'll see loads of old paintings of Italian girls and women wearing longer sleeved dresses. -
otness_e — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 05:32 PM)
Uhm, European royalty would often marry other royalty from the other side of the continent, it doesn't say anything about the location of Eric's kingdom.
Except when Eric is talking about the refused marriage as if it were still recent, it's unlikely that he got very far (why would Grimsby still give him grief about refusing the Princess of Flowerhaven's marriage if it was several years old, for instance).
Besides, Metal Fish had Hans Christian Andersen at the port of Eric's kingdom, and he certainly ain't Italian. And heck, based on Return to the Sea, Atlantica is actually near Greenland, and considering the fact that Melody apparently got to Morgana's lair (which was pretty clearly near the arctic, even having a polar bear if the DVD's menu is anything to go by) in less than a few hours, it's pretty clear Eric's kingdom couldn't be far. -
Stratego — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 05:48 PM)
Except when Eric is talking about the refused marriage as if it were still recent, it's unlikely that he got very far (why would Grimsby still give him grief about refusing the Princess of Flowerhaven's marriage if it was several years old, for instance).
I have no idea what you're talking about. Clearly there was some sort of event or the princess was invited (or the other way around) and they were introduced, after which he rejected her as a marriage candidate. There's nothing strange about that.
Besides, Metal Fish had Hans Christian Andersen at the port of Eric's kingdom, and he certainly ain't Italian.
No idea what Metal Fish is, but hey, you know what, maybe Andersen travelled to Italy?! It's nothing but a nice little reference to the original author and not to be taken seriously, anyway.
And heck, based on Return to the Sea, Atlantica is actually near Greenland, and considering the fact that Melody apparently got to Morgana's lair (which was pretty clearly near the arctic, even having a polar bear) in less than a few hours, it's pretty clear Eric's kingdom couldn't be far.
And in the first movie, Triton's kingdom seems to be in the Caribbean, so apparently mermaids travel at the speed of light. It's a fictional world! Eric's kingdom is clearly inspired by the Mediterranean region. -
otness_e — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 06:18 PM)
I have no idea what you're talking about. Clearly there was some sort of event or the princess was invited (or the other way around) and they were introduced, after which he rejected her as a marriage candidate. There's nothing strange about that.
An event that was implied to have happened recently enough for Grimsby to still give Eric some grief, and it was implied that they were returning from said event?
No idea what Metal Fish is, but hey, you know what, maybe Andersen travelled to Italy?! It's nothing but a nice little reference to the original author and not to be taken seriously, anyway.
Metal Fish was an episode for the TV series, and it's not just a "little reference" to the original author, it formed the basis of the entire plot of the episode, with the ending even strongly implying that Ariel's saving his butt all but ensured that the original tale was written.
And in the first movie, Triton's kingdom seems to be in the Caribbean, so apparently mermaids travel at the speed of light. It's a fictional world! Eric's kingdom is clearly inspired by the Mediterranean region.
Actually, Sebastian just hailed from the Caribbean and immigrated to Atlantica, if the TV series is of any indication. Besides, there's no way there are princes at the Caribbean, and even Italy can't be it especially when as noted above, they had gone to the Princess of Flowerhaven for an implied political marriage that Eric refused, and considering that Andersen was implied to have lived in Eric's kingdom, it's more than settled that it's Denmark.
Oh, and for the record, Eric's castle was based on a castle in Switzerland, which still points towards northern Europe, not the Mediterranean, and windmills were pretty prevalent in that area. -
Stratego — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 08:09 PM)
An event that was implied to have happened recently enough for Grimsby to still give Eric some grief, and it was implied that they were returning from said event?
Was it? I actually got the impression that it was just a boat trip in honour of Eric's birthday.
and it's not just a "little reference" to the original author, it formed the basis of the entire plot of the episode
It's one episode of a show that was highly inconsistent anyway. It was just a cameo! Anyway, Andersen could've visited the Mediterranean.
Actually, Sebastian just hailed from the Caribbean and immigrated to Atlantica, if the TV series is of any indication. Besides, there's no way there are princes at the Caribbean, and even Italy can't be it especially when as noted above, they had gone to the Princess of Flowerhaven for an implied political marriage that Eric refused, and considering that Andersen was implied to have lived in Eric's kingdom, it's more than settled that it's Denmark.
My point was, stop trying to place it in the real world! The meeting with the princess could've happened a few days (or even more) before, I don't see the problem. And again, Andersen could've visited Eric's kingdom.
By the way, I'm not saying it's Italy, I'm saying it's a country inspired by Italy.
Oh, and for the record, Eric's castle was based on a castle in Switzerland, which still points towards northern Europe,
Switzerland is NOT in Northern Europe, it's in Central Europe and actually closer to Italy (next door neighbour) than Denmark. And windmills aren't more prevelant in that area than they are in Italy. Again you show you know nothing about other countries or cultures.
But who says that those who built the castle weren't inspired by a Swiss castle?