Where does it take place?
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Stratego — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 08:30 PM)
Well, for starters, if it was a mere cameo that wasn't even intended to be canon, they wouldn't mention it in the art book.
They were in it for one split second and it was not mentioned that Corona was in Germany, so it doesn't mean anything. It was in the art book, because it's a nice easter egg for the fans.
nd maybe I should remind you that there is such a thing as a kingdom that is more like a small-scale city than an actual country.
What's your point? That's even more proof that it isn't Norway.
Yeah, and it's also in or around Iraq, if it being the inspiration is anything to go by, and they referred to the river as Jordan.
Doesn't make their nationality Iraqi, or whatever the other poster said.
Not really. They'd have different names and languages if that was the case
It's an alternative world with fictional countries, because in our world there are no such countries as Corona, Arendelle or Agrabah. -
otness_e — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 08:44 PM)
They were in it for one split second and it was not mentioned that Corona was in Germany, so it doesn't mean anything. It was in the art book, because it's a nice easter egg for the fans.
No, but it WAS shown that Eugene and Rapunzel were accompanying the German Diplomat. And again, if it was a nice easter egg for the fans, they won't mention it in the art book. Was ET mentioned in the Episode I Visual Dictionary?
What's your point? That's even more proof that it isn't Norway.
Nope, it's set in Norway. Used Norwegian, hence Norway.
Doesn't make their nationality Iraqi, or whatever the other poster said.
But it DOES mean that that's most likely where Agrabah is actually set.
It's an alternative world with fictional countries, because in our world there are no such countries as Corona, Arendelle or Agrabah.
No, but there were obviously such countries as Germany, Norway, and Iraq, which is clearly where those places were at.
And let me remind you that a kingdom doesn't just simply equate to a country. Just look at Romeo and Juliet, for example. That was set in Verona, and had a prince, meaning it was a kingdom, yet from the way the play was shown, it was clear Escolas was the true ruler of the kingdom. -
Stratego — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 09:17 PM)
And again, if it was a nice easter egg for the fans, they won't mention it in the art book.
That's a rule you just made up. There are no such restrictions.
Nope, it's set in Norway. Used Norwegian, hence Norway.
You are aware that certain languages are spoken in different countries? They speak German in Switzerland, does that mean it's part of Germany? No. It's set in the kingdom of Arendelle, which is clearly its own country
But it DOES mean that that's most likely where Agrabah is actually set.
Not at all. It perhaps mean that Iraq was an inspiration, but it's clearly set in Agrabah.
No, but there were obviously such countries as Germany, Norway, and Iraq, which is clearly where those places were at.
No, those places were at the fictional countries of Corona, Arendelle and Agrabah. Those real life countries might have been inspirations.
And let me remind you that a kingdom doesn't just simply equate to a country. Just look at Romeo and Juliet, for example. That was set in Verona, and had a prince, meaning it was a kingdom, yet from the way the play was shown, it was clear Escolas was the true ruler of the kingdom.
You don't have to remind me of anything, I clearly know more about the concept of countries and nations than you do. Wasn't Escolas actually the prince of Verona, meaning he was the true ruler in name and in fact? In reality, though, I believe Verona was part of the Republic of Venice. I don't understand your point. -
otness_e — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 09:40 PM)
That's a rule you just made up. There are no such restrictions.
If there were no such restrictions, please explain why the Visual Dictionary for Episode I of Star Wars failed to mention the ET species in there? That's the same thing, and considering the ET senator was clearly just a cameo appearance, that should make it very clear that his absence was specifically because he was a cameo and not relegated to the film. And no, it's not a rule I made up. Just look at the Visual Dictionary for Episode I of Star Wars, heck, even the Complete Visual Dictionary for Star Wars.
You are aware that certain languages are spoken in different countries? They speak German in Switzerland, does that mean it's part of Germany? No. It's set in the kingdom of Arendelle, which is clearly its own country
Actually, no, it is indeed set in Norway. Norwegian is exclusive to Norway, unlike French, Spanish, German, or English. And if that's not enough, they specifically reference fjords in the film, which are very prevalent in Norway. If it walks like a duck talks like a duck and looks like a duck, it's a duck.
Not at all. It perhaps mean that Iraq was an inspiration, but it's clearly set in Agrabah.
No, what would be simply an inspiration is if they had based a fictional settlement in Japan on, say, London. Sort of like how various Pokmon movies double locations in various countries while the region is pretty clearly set in a region based in Japan (and in the case of Unova and Kalos, New York and France, respectively).
You don't have to remind me of anything, I clearly know more about the concept of countries and nations than you do. Wasn't Escolas actually the prince of Verona, meaning he was the true ruler in name and in fact? In reality, though, I believe Verona was part of the Republic of Venice. I don't understand your point.
Which is part of Italy, which is the point. -
Stratego — 11 years ago(October 31, 2014 06:51 AM)
If there were no such restrictions, please explain why the Visual Dictionary for Episode I of Star Wars failed to mention the ET species in there?
Star Wars has nothing to do with this movie. One person doing something, doesn't mean another person will do the same.
Actually, no, it is indeed set in Norway. Norwegian is exclusive to Norway,
Actually, no, there are very small communities in the US where Norwegian is spoken. But it doesn't matter, because in the FICTIONAL world of Arendelle, Norwegian is spoken outside of Norway or Norway might not even exist. The Norwegian language is never identified as such in the movie.
No, what would be simply an inspiration is if they had based a fictional settlement in Japan on, say, London.
You don't know what the word inspiration means either. The animators may have seen some images of Iraq, liked it and used the images to design the country of Agrabah. That's called inspiration.
Sort of like how various Pokmon movies
For the last time, fnck off with Pokemon.
Which is part of Italy, which is the point.
No, the point is that Italy wasn't a country before 1861. Do you know anything, except Pokemon? -
otness_e — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 05:02 PM)
If the episode Metal Fish as well as Eric's reference to a Flowerhaven in the first film, possibly also the map in Return to the Sea are anything to go by, Eric's kingdom is somewhere in Scandinavia, most likely Denmark. Besides, while there were probably some stuff that point to a Mediterranean climate, Ariel's peasant dress contradicts that, as it has very long sleeves, which suggests a colder climate (Her day dress would be sleeveless), and even Vanessa, who had a sleeveless dress, wore a cloak over her, and the dress looked Scandinavian as well (heck, it was the same type of dress Anna and Elsa wore). That grotto was privately owned by Eric, which may mean the plants and animals (the Flamingoes especially) were imports. It's not uncommon, as the Roman Empire had exotic plants and animals in various palaces, some not even native to the region.
Also, King Triton is NOT the same as Triton from Mythology, nor is Poseidon the same one. In fact, Triton's father is named Poseidon, yet his grandfather is named Neptune, which BTW, in mythology, Neptune and Poseidon are actually the same guy. Had it been Greek Mythology, Triton's grandpa would be Chronos, not Neptune.
As far as the time period, since Ariel is strongly implied to be responsible for the creation of the original tale in the episode Metal Fish, and assuming the TV Series takes place a year before the film, I'd say about 1836, give or take. -
Stratego — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 05:27 PM)
If the episode Metal Fish as well as Eric's reference to a Flowerhaven in the first film, possibly also the map in Return to the Sea are anything to go by, Eric's kingdom is somewhere in Scandinavia
Uhm, European royalty would often marry other royalty from the other side of the continent, it doesn't say anything about the location of Eric's kingdom.
Besides, while there were probably some stuff that point to a Mediterranean climate, Ariel's peasant dress contradicts that, as it has very long sleeves, which suggests a colder
As if the animators are going to think about details like that, they just draw what they like. But just google for pictures using something like "Italian peasant girl/woman" and you'll see loads of old paintings of Italian girls and women wearing longer sleeved dresses. -
otness_e — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 05:32 PM)
Uhm, European royalty would often marry other royalty from the other side of the continent, it doesn't say anything about the location of Eric's kingdom.
Except when Eric is talking about the refused marriage as if it were still recent, it's unlikely that he got very far (why would Grimsby still give him grief about refusing the Princess of Flowerhaven's marriage if it was several years old, for instance).
Besides, Metal Fish had Hans Christian Andersen at the port of Eric's kingdom, and he certainly ain't Italian. And heck, based on Return to the Sea, Atlantica is actually near Greenland, and considering the fact that Melody apparently got to Morgana's lair (which was pretty clearly near the arctic, even having a polar bear if the DVD's menu is anything to go by) in less than a few hours, it's pretty clear Eric's kingdom couldn't be far. -
Stratego — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 05:48 PM)
Except when Eric is talking about the refused marriage as if it were still recent, it's unlikely that he got very far (why would Grimsby still give him grief about refusing the Princess of Flowerhaven's marriage if it was several years old, for instance).
I have no idea what you're talking about. Clearly there was some sort of event or the princess was invited (or the other way around) and they were introduced, after which he rejected her as a marriage candidate. There's nothing strange about that.
Besides, Metal Fish had Hans Christian Andersen at the port of Eric's kingdom, and he certainly ain't Italian.
No idea what Metal Fish is, but hey, you know what, maybe Andersen travelled to Italy?! It's nothing but a nice little reference to the original author and not to be taken seriously, anyway.
And heck, based on Return to the Sea, Atlantica is actually near Greenland, and considering the fact that Melody apparently got to Morgana's lair (which was pretty clearly near the arctic, even having a polar bear) in less than a few hours, it's pretty clear Eric's kingdom couldn't be far.
And in the first movie, Triton's kingdom seems to be in the Caribbean, so apparently mermaids travel at the speed of light. It's a fictional world! Eric's kingdom is clearly inspired by the Mediterranean region. -
otness_e — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 06:18 PM)
I have no idea what you're talking about. Clearly there was some sort of event or the princess was invited (or the other way around) and they were introduced, after which he rejected her as a marriage candidate. There's nothing strange about that.
An event that was implied to have happened recently enough for Grimsby to still give Eric some grief, and it was implied that they were returning from said event?
No idea what Metal Fish is, but hey, you know what, maybe Andersen travelled to Italy?! It's nothing but a nice little reference to the original author and not to be taken seriously, anyway.
Metal Fish was an episode for the TV series, and it's not just a "little reference" to the original author, it formed the basis of the entire plot of the episode, with the ending even strongly implying that Ariel's saving his butt all but ensured that the original tale was written.
And in the first movie, Triton's kingdom seems to be in the Caribbean, so apparently mermaids travel at the speed of light. It's a fictional world! Eric's kingdom is clearly inspired by the Mediterranean region.
Actually, Sebastian just hailed from the Caribbean and immigrated to Atlantica, if the TV series is of any indication. Besides, there's no way there are princes at the Caribbean, and even Italy can't be it especially when as noted above, they had gone to the Princess of Flowerhaven for an implied political marriage that Eric refused, and considering that Andersen was implied to have lived in Eric's kingdom, it's more than settled that it's Denmark.
Oh, and for the record, Eric's castle was based on a castle in Switzerland, which still points towards northern Europe, not the Mediterranean, and windmills were pretty prevalent in that area. -
Stratego — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 08:09 PM)
An event that was implied to have happened recently enough for Grimsby to still give Eric some grief, and it was implied that they were returning from said event?
Was it? I actually got the impression that it was just a boat trip in honour of Eric's birthday.
and it's not just a "little reference" to the original author, it formed the basis of the entire plot of the episode
It's one episode of a show that was highly inconsistent anyway. It was just a cameo! Anyway, Andersen could've visited the Mediterranean.
Actually, Sebastian just hailed from the Caribbean and immigrated to Atlantica, if the TV series is of any indication. Besides, there's no way there are princes at the Caribbean, and even Italy can't be it especially when as noted above, they had gone to the Princess of Flowerhaven for an implied political marriage that Eric refused, and considering that Andersen was implied to have lived in Eric's kingdom, it's more than settled that it's Denmark.
My point was, stop trying to place it in the real world! The meeting with the princess could've happened a few days (or even more) before, I don't see the problem. And again, Andersen could've visited Eric's kingdom.
By the way, I'm not saying it's Italy, I'm saying it's a country inspired by Italy.
Oh, and for the record, Eric's castle was based on a castle in Switzerland, which still points towards northern Europe,
Switzerland is NOT in Northern Europe, it's in Central Europe and actually closer to Italy (next door neighbour) than Denmark. And windmills aren't more prevelant in that area than they are in Italy. Again you show you know nothing about other countries or cultures.
But who says that those who built the castle weren't inspired by a Swiss castle? -
otness_e — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 08:21 PM)
Was it? I actually got the impression that it was just a boat trip in honour of Eric's birthday.
So why would they be talking about that failed marriage if it really wasn't recent, not to mention was clearly already on his way back to the kingdom?
It's one episode of a show that was highly inconsistent anyway. It was just a cameo! Anyway, Andersen could've visited the Mediterranean.
Considering that he was dropped off at the beach where she would meet Eric, and was implied to be testing out a sub, not likely. And a cameo isn't the focus of an entire episode's plot. You want an actual cameo, look at Brock's brief appearance in Pokmon the Movie 2000, where he only appears in the background and offers no role to the film at all.
My point was, stop trying to place it in the real world! The meeting with the princess could've happened a few days (or even more) before, I don't see the problem. And again, Andersen could've visited Eric's kingdom.
See above.
And my mistake regarding Switzerland. I definitely also know Switzerland can't be the kingdom because it's completely landlocked. I should remind you, BTW, that Ariel's dress is definitely a lot closer in style to Northern European dresses than to Mediterranean Dresses (just compare her dress to Anna's, heck, even Elsa's coronation dress, and it's pretty obvious that Anna and Elsa are Northern European). -
Stratego — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 08:44 PM)
So why would they be talking about that failed marriage if it really wasn't recent, not to mention was clearly already on his way back to the kingdom?
One, there was no failed marriage, there was a failed marriage arrangement. Two, they talked about the failed marriage arrangement because Grimsby had wanted to give the statue as a wedding present. He probably commisioned it months ago, hoping Eric would agree to marry the princess he still had to meet. Three, as I said, I got the impression that this was just a boat trip near the coast of his kingdom in honour of his birthday.
Considering that he was dropped off at the beach where she would meet Eric, and was implied to be testing out a sub, not likely. And a cameo isn't the focus of an entire episode's plot. You want an actual cameo, look at Brock's brief appearance in Pokmon the Movie 2000, where he only appears in the background and offers no role to the film at all.
I have no idea why Mr. Andersen couldn't have tested a sub while in Italy. And you clearly don't know what a cameo is.
I should remind you, BTW, that Ariel's dress is definitely a lot closer in style to Northern European dresses than to Mediterranean Dresses
I completely disagree. But it doesn't matter what the dress looks like, because it's a fictional country! And the architecture of the kingdom is clearly Southern European, which is more important than one little dress. -
otness_e — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 08:56 PM)
One, there was no failed marriage, there was a failed marriage arrangement. Two, they talked about the failed marriage arrangement because Grimsby had wanted to give the statue as a wedding present. He probably commisioned it months ago, hoping Eric would agree to marry the princess he still had to meet. Three, as I said, I got the impression that this was just a boat trip near the coast of his kingdom in honour of his birthday.
Either way, it's still the same concept, save that he hadn't actually accepted marriage. He'd still need to get to the princess in question at Flowerhaven/Glowerhaven. And either way, considering they had commissioned the statue, and it was clearly onboard the ship presumably hidden before the birthday celebration and, as you pointed out, he had commissioned it for the intended wedding, it needed to have been done on the expectation that Eric would say yes, and why place it on the ship if it wasn't intended to be used for the wedding.
I have no idea why Mr. Andersen couldn't have tested a sub while in Italy. And you clearly don't know what a cameo is.
For starters, since it's implied he built it, that means he'd need to do it on his home turf.
And yes, I actually do know what a cameo is. A cameo is a brief appearance that doesn't actually impact the plot at all, or at best has very minimal impact on the plot. That was NOT a cameo at all, especially when he was the central focus. I even gave you an example of an actual Cameo. Pokmon the Movie 2000, Brock running in full panic mode in the background while Professor Ivy was contacting Professor Oak. That's a cameo. Another example is the brief sighting of Belle in Hunchback of Notre Dame.
I completely disagree. But it doesn't matter what the dress looks like, because it's a fictional country! And the architecture of the kingdom is clearly Southern European, which is more important than one little dress.
Okay, here's another thing, suppose it WAS in Italy, he'd still need to take several months just to get to Glowerhaven, in Scandinavia, and several more months just to get back from there, and he also has to make sure to avoid shipwrecking in the cliffareas separating Africa from Spain, stuff that is extremely difficult and results in a lot of shipwrecks. That definitely can't have been likely to occur within an implied short time span especially given Grimsby and Eric's conversation.
Oh, and BTW, "Eric" is a Scandinavian name, so I'm pretty sure that should give a huge hint as to where that would be located at. -
Stratego — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 09:25 PM)
why place it on the ship if it wasn't intended to be used for the wedding.
Because Grimsby had decided to use it as a birthday present instead.
A cameo is a brief appearance that doesn't actually impact the plot at all, or at best has very minimal impact on the plot.
Wrong, a cameo can certainly impact the plot, especially when it comes to tv shows. But I'm so not interested in discussing the definition of the word "cameo".
Okay, here's another thing, suppose it WAS in Italy, he'd still need to take several months just to get to Glowerhaven, in Scandinavia, and several more months just to get back from there, and he also has to make sure to avoid shipwrecking in the cliffareas separating Africa from Spain, stuff that is extremely difficult and results in a lot of shipwrecks.
Why do you assume he went by ship? Why do you assume he didn't meet the princess at an event in another country?
Oh, and BTW, "Eric" is a Scandinavian name, so I'm pretty sure that should give a huge hint as to where that would be located at.
Erik is actually the more common spelling used in Scandinavia, Eric is used in Germany, France and England. But as I said, it's a fictional country! And perhaps Eric's mother was foreign and that's how he got that name, who knows. Ariel is a male name, by the way, but that doesn't make Ariel a guy. -
otness_e — 11 years ago(October 30, 2014 09:32 PM)
Because Grimsby had decided to use it as a birthday present instead.
Except he made clear he intended for it to be used at the wedding.
Wrong, a cameo can certainly impact the plot, especially when it comes to tv shows.
No, it cannot impact the plot. What you are referring to are guest appearances, which do require some impact on the plot of a TV show. Cameos don't impact the plot, certainly not in a very major way.
Why do you assume he went by ship? Why do you assume he didn't meet the princess at an event in another country?
Considering they were talking about it while ON the ship, and it was implied to be fairly recent, that's exactly why they'd go there. Besides, Disney Comics apparently showed the event in question, and although I can't say with absolute certainty whether this was the case as I've never read it, I think he did take a ship there.
Erik is actually the more common spelling used in Scandinavia, Eric is used in Germany and England. But as I said, it's a fictional country! And perhaps Eric's mother was foreign and that's how he got that name, who knows. Ariel is a male name, by the way, but that doesn't make Ariel a guy.
Technically, Ariel's a unisex name, so it's not really exclusive of any gender.
And either way, it's intended to be Denmark. Pretty much everything points to it. HCA being present there with the sub he built, not to mention delivered there by Ariel, Atlantica being near Greenland, Glowerhaven, the evidence is all there. So it has some Italian architecture. Big whoop, Adam's castle looked like the Luxembourg castle, yet his movie was explicitly stated to be in France (and based on the geography and other aspects, the Alsace-Lorraine region). -
Stratego — 11 years ago(October 31, 2014 06:34 AM)
Except he made clear he intended for it to be used at the wedding.
You're totally not making sense. Grimsby commissioned the statue for the wedding. When that didn't happen, he decided to bring it along on the boat trip in honour of Eric's birthday and give it to him as a birthday present. Very logical.
Cameos don't impact the plot, certainly not in a very major way.
That's not the definition of a cameo. It's simply a short role of a famous person which may or may not have lines. But I would say that the size of it is relative, there's a difference between a cameo in a movie and on a tv show. But I'm not going to discuss this any further, as it is of no importance to the discussion.
Considering they were talking about it while ON the ship, and it was implied to be fairly recent, that's exactly why they'd go there.
That they were talking about it on the ship implies absolutely nothing, and it wasn't implied to be fairly recent either. It could've been months ago, it was only brought up because Grimsby was still bothered by Eric's rejection of the princess.
Technically, Ariel's a unisex name, so it's not really exclusive of any gender.
Not so, Arielle/a is the female version, that's why her name is Arielle in the German dub. Ariel as a female name is a recent development.
And either way, it's intended to be Denmark. Pretty much everything points to it.
Except that everything doesn't point to Denmark, no matter how much you want it to be so. And again, it's intended to be a fictional country! All you've got is an ridiculous appearance of Andersen in an inconsistent and very bad cartoon series. Big whoop! I already explained how that doesn't imply anything. -
atomicseasoning — 10 years ago(April 20, 2015 01:42 PM)
I really don't knowalthough I've often speculated that it was a European settlement in the Caribbean, hence Sebastian, the palm trees, Spanish moss, weeping willows, & flamingos in Eric's kingdomand the wrecked paddle wheeler that appears in one of the TV show episodes. Although the part about Ariel & co. meeting Hans Christian Andersen in one of the last episodes, plus how quickly Melody reached the Arctic in TLM II, makes me think Europe too, so who knows? lol
Eric & Ariel's hair coloring, makes me think of Celtic people too (Blue-eyed, dark haired Irish boy & his ginger girlfriendbut that's just my idea.
) -
Andthatismytwocents — 10 years ago(May 19, 2015 10:19 AM)
If not already Mentioned
Submersible veichle was invented in 1775 the Turtle
A product WAY ahead of it's time as it was to be used to destroy Blockades
did not quite work Made by "American" David Bushnell
It would be seventy years or so before Adequate technology would come Mid 1800's and another 50 years or so after that 20th century
Peter David wrote a Little Mermaid comic before the Tv series about someone trying to get Prince Eric to fund the building of a large craft and to prove it works the scientist would bring back something ONLY found in the Ocean
THREE GUESSES -
Tinny-Tinette — 10 years ago(July 18, 2015 11:44 AM)
Not really. Most of the Disney Princess-films takes place in a non-descriptional, European kingdom. Though it's of course open for debate, it's stated several times. In reality it's a pity, since "Mermaid" could've been set in Denmark, actually.