Why does everyone love Val Kilmer in this?
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Tombstone
Peterlh — 10 years ago(March 01, 2016 01:29 PM)
Just because he put on a fake accent and some white makeup everyone seems head over heels with his acting.
I didn't find Val Kilmers acting particularly impressive, what exactly is it that makes his performance so great in your eyes? -
A_Real_Hip_Dude — 10 years ago(March 01, 2016 01:52 PM)
If your view of his acting is limited to percieving a phony accent and white makeup, then further explanation would most likely be a waste of time for whoever might be inclined to engage. Sorry you didn't enjoy it.
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A_Real_Hip_Dude — 10 years ago(March 01, 2016 03:14 PM)
It was more of a sympathy sorry than an apology sorry. I just think you should account for more than an accent and makeup in drawing your conclusion.
This is my sig: I'm now using a previous ID. I say so to be accountable for previous posts. -
Peterlh — 10 years ago(March 02, 2016 12:38 AM)
Actually makeup and accents are some of the least concerns I have when judging whether I find someone's acting good, bad, impressive, mediocre etc.
The reason I made the statement concerning his makeup and accent was because people being blinded by superficial things as these is the only reason I can think of why one would be so impressed with his acting.
I am not saying he was particularly bad, just that I don't see it as anything out of the ordinary. -
preachcaleb — 10 years ago(March 02, 2016 08:05 AM)
The reason I made the statement concerning his makeup and accent was because people being blinded by superficial things as these is the only reason I can think of why one would be so impressed with his acting.
Well that's awfully narrow-minded.
Val Kilmer imbued Doc with a deadpan, Southern charm, yet a cold-blooded killer behind his eyes. His two bed-ridden scenes with Wyatt really break down that facade to reveal a man who might be more angry at his own life than the people who've tried to kill him.
Let's be bad guys. -
A_Real_Hip_Dude — 10 years ago(March 02, 2016 09:17 AM)
Ok, that's fair, even if it is making some pretty broad assumptions. True people do sometimes stop short with the elements such as accent or makeup, but I really don't think that's the case here. In fact, it's interesting to me why you didn't like him, or if I'm correct, felt he was overrated? But let me explain why I think he is so eagerly embraced.
I think there's a lot of natural reasons why people enjoyed him so much. First off, he sort of made every scene pop; he was always wearing something cool and flashy compared to Wyatt's more toned down, black and white clothing. Also, most scenarios, especially the tense ones, were usually capped by some witticism from Doc. Add to that his cool and his courage, and it creates a character that I think it's easy for people to be drawn to.
Wyatt's story was compelling and created a narrative worthy of making a movie around it, but it was Doc's presence that brought in an element of escapism, and viewers will often gravitate towards that kind of character when done well.
Obviously his acting and personal story are subjective as to whether or not they should be considered great or not, but I personally felt that he carried the proper emotional engagement for each occasion that he faced.
This is my sig: I'm now using a different ID; I say so to be accountable for previous posts. -
Peterlh — 10 years ago(March 02, 2016 11:55 AM)
Thank you for taking the time to write up the things you enjoy about Val Kilmer's character.
I see what you are talking about and I can understand it to some extent, but Doc Holliday wearing flashy clothes and having witty or cool lines comes more down to having a good script writer and wardrobe department than a good actor.
Anyone can put on clothes and speak whatever lines they are told but for me to consider someone's acting to be really good I have to forget that it's an actor playing some role, I have to actually
believe
that the person I'm seeing on screen is a real person and not someone portraying a certain character.
In my opinion an actor has to
own
the character he is portraying and to speak and act as if it was completely natural to him while still being appropriate in the context of the film - I didn't feel this way about the way Val Kilmer portrayd Doc Holliday.
We may have different views on what good acting is or we might simply disagree on this particular case, either way we are each entitled to our own opinion on the matter. -
A_Real_Hip_Dude — 10 years ago(March 02, 2016 04:05 PM)
No problem, I'm glad to respond! I just honestly couldn't tell from the first post how in depth you were wanting to look at it. I agree that what you're saying about an actors requirements for fulfilling a role are, and of course the reception by the audience is up to each individual member of the audience. It's also why I tried to state elements that I think have an impact on the viewer in a more universal sense, rather than just subjectively saying "Because he kicked ass!" (no offense to "courtjes" below me).
The ability to engage by an actor is a funny thing. Some people say that Leo DiCaprio is one of the most engaging actors ever, and that what he does on the screen just pulls in the viewer. And then others feel that everything he does feels the same. I guess maybe it's almost like a plutonic version of the laws of attraction; there's just something that pulls you in. For me Kilmer was great as Doc and I bought it, and same for a lot of people. But definitely not everybody.
And on that note, if you haven't seen it but you are interested Doc Holliday, then you might watch Wyatt Earp with Kevin Costner. I personally think the movie is a bit too big in its intention but a little lacking in it's delivery, but Dennis Quaid also gives a much praised performance as Holliday (and believe me there's arguments a plenty over who's better). But if you have seen it and are fully aware, then I apologize if it sounded patronizing.
This is my sig: I'm now using a different ID; I say so to be accountable for previous posts. -
Peterlh — 10 years ago(March 03, 2016 02:47 AM)
Thank you for the recommendation, I don't think I will watch it however.
I am not that interested in Doc Holliday to be honest, I have heard that the movie is quite long and dull, and I have a LOT of other movies in my watchlist that I want to watch first. -
Ghetto_Defendant — 10 years ago(March 10, 2016 07:47 PM)
"In my opinion an actor has to own the character he is portraying and to speak and act as if it was completely natural to him while still being appropriate in the context of the film"
I felt that Kilmer did own the character of Doc Holliday, and his monologues (and dialogues) seemed incredibly effortless. I bought his portrayal of a flawed Southern gentleman gunslinger. -
newfrontier45 — 9 years ago(April 27, 2016 06:45 PM)
I'm not going to respond to the generalizations you made, as they could be taken as quite insulting. Let's just say that you are in the extreme minority with your opinion. Has nothing to do with his accent or make-up, which is absurd.
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kermmorris — 9 years ago(April 14, 2016 10:25 AM)
At the risk of repeating what others have already stated.I enjoyed the performance of Kilmer because, he played him in a way that I have never seen before. In the older movies Pre 1980's genre, Doc Holiday is the same character, gambling, rambling and famous as the shootist and second banana for the famous Wyatt Earp. He was the same in nearly every movie that had a Doc Holliday character. The performance by Val Kilmer was different, he brought a coolness to the role, a dangerous and flawed man that was both educated and base at once, without proclaiming it with a scream or loudmouth declaration (see Dennis Quaid in the Movie WYATT). He also stole the scenes with an assurance that was believable and entertaining; He played the role with an air and attitude that was believable. Having said that, I know that the director may have played fast and loose with the facts concerning Wyatt and Doc, but nevertheless, I believe his method fit the character. for example; the scene where Wyatt is surrounded by the cowboys in the street, and Wyatt tells Ike Clanton that he will turn his head into a canoe, Doc walks up with a drink (and a gun). Billy Clanton remarks that Doc is seeing double, to which he replies. "I have two guns..one for each of you." while he recites the phrase he twirls his pistols (in opposite directions. This is what made Kilmer's performance top notch and led to what is now a movie favorite if not a classic. although Holliday has been characterized as loud, brash and belligerent, he reinvented the character without offending, or making a mockery of his legend. Also noting the good performances by the other talent. Stephen Lang, Kurt Russell, Powers Boothe and others. IMHO regards.
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Chloe1251 — 9 years ago(April 20, 2016 07:18 AM)
. "I have two guns..one for each of you." while he recites the phrase he twirls his pistols (
in opposite directions
.
I loved that.
This is what made Kilmer's performance top notch and led to what is now a movie favorite if not a classic. although Holliday has been characterized as loud, brash and belligerent,
According to Wyatt, Doc was a Southern gentleman, calm and cool with the kind of scathing wit we see in the movie, and not coarse, vulgar and loud like Quaid's portrayal.