Episodes where ray was right and Debra was wrong
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Everybody Loves Raymond
gabrieltosh — 9 years ago(May 07, 2016 05:56 PM)
The annoying kid- the kid was rude to ray with pure intention of annoying him while he was a guest in his house and all Debra cared about was finally having adult friends
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andrereichenbacher — 9 years ago(May 07, 2016 08:11 PM)
He should have just sucked it up and dealt with it like a man and not like the spineless pussy he was and always had been. And I think Spencer was just the amalgamation of all the "annoying kids" that Ray and Phil Rosenthal had dealt with before at some point in their lives. And it's a possibility that Spencer was on the austism spectrum, but the writers of the ep chose not to go there. And I'm glad they didnt go there, because the end result would have probably REALLY pissed me off!
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Wildstyle26 — 9 years ago(May 07, 2016 08:39 PM)
Well I can't blame Debra for not believing Ray when he complained about Spencer, because Ray is a bit of a child himself, and can barely tolerate his own kids.
Now, episodes where I did think Debra was out of line
Lateness
Superbowl
both of them were equally silly
Net North- I don't even watc that one after the 1st viewing.
Young Girl - she was a bit too self-righteous there
Turkey or Fish
She was out of line to wait until the last min. then try to take Marie's year for Thanksgiving -when Marie has probably already started getting everything together. Then she wants to pout that Marie has an attitude about that and brought a turkey.
Then there's the episode where she opens her mouth, says something stupid and ruins a good thing.
Marie making up with her sister, Alda. Then Debra comes out and stupidly says "I forgive you too, Aunt Alda" when Alda didn't apologize to her, then Debra goes into detail about the wedding and gets Marie and Alda fighting again. Though I loved Alda's last line to Marie,
Marie
"You never even sent a gift!"
Alda
"My gift was that I came at all."
Marie
"What kind of a horse's ass gift is that?!"
Alda
"You'd be lucky to have a horse's ass."
- I don't even watc that one after the 1st viewing.
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DanaShelbyChancey — 9 years ago(May 08, 2016 03:49 PM)
I think Ray was pitifully wrong in Lateness, but I know I am outshouted about that.
Debra was overwrought in Super Bowl. Actually, as the wife of a sportswriter, she should want nothing to interfere with her husband's profession. So giving Ray a hard time about what they do or don't do when they are in town for the Super Bowl, is worse than anything.
Just an aside, I actually knew a woman who brought a cooked turkey to a Christmas dinner for her son, when her daughter in law (other son's wife) was cooking lasagna for a bunch of guests at her home. I worked with the daughter in law. -
Wildstyle26 — 9 years ago(May 09, 2016 10:21 AM)
I can understand Debra's disappointment there. She was fine with Ray taking Gianni. Robert and Frank made a stink about that. Debra just drank her coffee and wasn't concerned.
But when Ray called her, and asked her to come down, she was happy because she was thinking they were going to have a bit of vacation time together without the family. And she was ecstatic when she got there.
However, once she was down there, then Ray springs it to her that they weren't going to spend any time together except at night after they've done their own stuff separately all day. That's what he wants when they're home together. Had she known it was going to be like that, she'd have probably stayed home.
She wasn't trying to ruin his trip, or not want him to go to the SB. She was just hoping they would be spending some time together if he wanted her to come down there. Sadly, she didn't know he only invited her because his pals thought to bring their wives and he was ashamed.
BUt what I do fault Debra for is her initial reaction. Where she makes a scene in front of another couple, then storms into the bathroom like a bratty teenager. Then when Ray gets rid of the couple and opens the door, she's standing there with her arms folded, waiting for him to come to her. -
alanjobe — 9 years ago(May 09, 2016 06:35 AM)
Lateness and The Super Bowl are two episodes I cannot watch. I get so mad at Debra - and I like Debra.
But I really felt for Ray in both of those.
In Lateness, she made a deal to be on time. She should've been in the car by 6:15, not still primping in the mirror at 6:27.
In The Super Bowl, do you think she would've invited Ray to a free trip to the Mall of America?? No, she would've left the kids with him and took Amy or Linda or her Mom. She couldn't let Ray go and enjoy the weekend with Gianni even though she hates football. -
DanaShelbyChancey — 9 years ago(May 09, 2016 10:33 AM)
I know everyone disagrees with me, but I think that in Lateness, Ray leaving Debra at home while he goes to the event, is a very hurtful thing to do to someone you are supposed to love.
Sure she shook hands on the deal, so what. That is not the spirit of a relationship. -
JosephASpadaro — 9 years ago(May 09, 2016 11:11 AM)
I know everyone disagrees with me, but I think that in Lateness, Ray leaving Debra at home while he goes to the event, is a very hurtful thing to do to someone you are supposed to love.
Sure she shook hands on the deal, so what. That is not the spirit of a relationship.
A relationship is 50/50. You criticize Ray. No criticism of Debra here? -
DanaShelbyChancey — 9 years ago(May 09, 2016 12:22 PM)
Sure, I think she didn't need to give her hair that last little touchup. She should have quit while she was ahead.
But it isn't a nice way to treat your spouse. I don't care what anybody says. In my marriage, I am the one who is ready on time and sitting on the couch, while my husband is getting into the shower.
I don't just leave him behind, because why would I want to attend an event without him? Isn't that part of marriage, that you want to go to special events with your spouse, not make some cockamamie handshake deal and go without them? -
JosephASpadaro — 9 years ago(May 09, 2016 12:25 PM)
Yes, of course.
But you are missing the point.
Debra had an "obligation" and a "commitment", also.
It seems like you are easily dismissing/forgiving her, but buckling down on Ray.
She had an obligation to her husband. And she easily could have made sure to fulfill that. She
chose
not to. -
DanaShelbyChancey — 9 years ago(May 10, 2016 07:48 AM)
Sure, that can be the rationale for the person who makes others wait. They don't have good time management skills.
But no one is addressing the idea that a loving spouse would rather go to the event with the person they love (this spouse) by their side, not leave them behind and go alone. -
JosephASpadaro — 9 years ago(May 10, 2016 08:52 AM)
But no one is addressing the idea that a loving spouse would rather go to the event with the person they love (this spouse) by their side, not leave them behind and go alone.
Exactly!
And it was Debra who
created
that predicament. She put Ray into that predicament.
So, why would a loving spouse place the other in such a predicament?
Plus, I think Ray was getting an award (or it was some important function).
Why would you want to make your husband look like a horse's ass and make him have to waltz in late to the function?
Because Debra thought that her concerns and her time are much more important and valuable than everyone else's. Including her husband. And including the crowd of 100 people at the ceremony. -
DanaShelbyChancey — 9 years ago(May 10, 2016 09:05 AM)
So, bottom line is, everyone is free to behave just as they like.
I am alone in feeling, that I would wait for my spouse and not wish to attend without them. Everyone else feels differently from me, and would leave them behind.
In the end it just boils down to a personal choice. -
JosephASpadaro — 9 years ago(May 10, 2016 09:10 AM)
Right.
There is no black and white. For the most part, things fall in the "gray area" in between.
Both Ray and Debra acted badly.
However: you are very quick to forgive and to dismiss (and to minimize) the bad conduct of Debra. (Which only enables such bad conduct.)
And not so with Ray.
In fact, you shift the blame for the bad conduct of Debra onto Ray.
In other words, you are victimizing the victim.
It's a standard ploy. -
DanaShelbyChancey — 9 years ago(May 10, 2016 09:39 AM)
Ploy for what, I don't know. But here is a stupid story from when I was much younger, about 19. Ages ago, as I am 60 now.
I was dating this jerk, and we were going out, to attend a function. Nothing fancy, just a night out at a place.
We were talking, then he says I said something that offended him, and he got mad. He tells me I am not going to the place with him. He is leaving me behind. It was young and dumb, but I was nave and I start apologizing and crying but he stands firm. "you're not going". I even followed him to the car and ran a little beside the car as he floored it and left without me.
A little later on, I learned there was this other girl who was going to be there, who he wanted to get to know better. We broke up pretty soon after this, and perhaps it colors my perception of the whole "leaving behind" thing. -
DanaShelbyChancey — 9 years ago(May 10, 2016 10:06 AM)
But does it mean I am wrong? What I ultimately took from the experience, is that there are ways you treat someone you care about. This ex-dating guy obviously didn't care about me, so he treated me this way. I care for, for example, my husband, so I would never treat him shabbily, such as leaving without him to an event.
We differ, in that you would feel justified in treating someone crappy, if you felt they did it first, while I don't go by that.