No sympathy for Tom and John
-
kenny-164 — 10 years ago(March 11, 2016 12:55 PM)
The OP makes an interesting point. But they also did the world a favor killing Nokes. Why should they go down for that?
I thought this was a pretty good movie, btw. Great cast. But the story was kind of obvious and dreary at the same time. I gave it a 7. -
riverwalk — 9 years ago(April 30, 2016 02:03 AM)
''But they also did the world a favor killing Nokes. Why should they go down for that?''
i see your point and in theory that's perfectly fine but yes they should go down for it in the bigger picture and for the sake of morality and safety. For instance they murdered a man because he abused them, terrible I know but then if they get away with it why shouldn't others get away with it?
And then where do you draw the line? Why should it be ok to murder somebody if they sexually abuse you but not ok if they assault you, bully you, sleep with your girlfriend, or steal from you? It would be chaos and anarchy. We'd all be going around killing each others over transgressions and you can't jail one and not the other. -
TheCommenteer — 9 years ago(July 22, 2016 09:31 AM)
People don't have to justify their support for one over another. Their views are their own, nobody is talking about changing laws here. It's a one off instance and people support it. End of story.
Personally I think they should be locked away, but I felt neither positive or negative about them not going to prison for this. They are already suspects in their other crimes and as far as I recall had already done time. -
fiatlux-1 — 10 years ago(April 01, 2016 12:30 PM)
I agree with the OP in the sense that Tom & John lost some of my sympathy when I learned how they turned out.
Yes it was horrific what they went through, they couldn't escape that without some emotional & physical damage.
But what they became was their CHOICE. All humans have free will.
The fact that a couple of their cohorts became good guys fighting FOR other good guys proves this.
I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus.
Didn't he discover America?
Penfold, shush. -
sunchick116-872-583383 — 9 years ago(June 20, 2016 04:01 PM)
I don't think you can simplify anything that happened in this film as a 'choice'. it was all a consequence of trauma and PTSD. when you're dealing with those kind of mental issues, it's almost as if it isn't you talking.
-
debl51 — 9 years ago(February 10, 2017 07:06 PM)
I don't think you can simplify anything that happened in this film as a 'choice'. it was all a consequence of trauma and PTSD. when you're dealing with those kind of mental issues, it's almost as if it isn't you talking.
I do think there are mitigating circumstances when people are called to judgement. I think it's worse that a "normal" person decides to kill for greed or selfish reasons,than a couple guys whose childhood was hell, and had affected them.
A persons background is a factor in how they deal with life, and boys traumatized like they were would have had really bad issues affecting them and their outlook on life. -
debl51 — 9 years ago(February 10, 2017 07:08 PM)
I don't think you can simplify anything that happened in this film as a 'choice'. it was all a consequence of trauma and PTSD. when you're dealing with those kind of mental issues, it's almost as if it isn't you talking.
I do think there are mitigating circumstances when people are called to judgement. I think it's worse that a "normal" person decides to kill for greed or selfish reasons,than a couple guys whose childhood was hell, and had affected them.
A persons background is a factor in how they deal with life, and boys traumatized like they were would have had really bad issues affecting them and their outlook on life. -
daughterofolaf — 10 years ago(April 03, 2016 12:35 AM)
I disagree that the film's moral or point would have been better had they not been thugs. At any rate they were both killed shortly after all of this happened so I think that was the writer's way of giving them their own punishment. They certainly didn't live happily ever after.
"Why couldn't the monkey arrange this from INSIDE the garbage can?" -
The-Musicscope — 9 years ago(May 29, 2016 08:33 PM)
John & Tommy weren't tried in court but they did die a short time after the movie's events took place, both before they hit 30. Even if it was by outside circumstances, they got their punishment.
As for Father Bobby, he wasn't just some witness recruited to give a false alibi, he was like a real Father to all those boys since they were little kids. He loved them for the kids they were, not what they'd become. Even after Shakes told him all the horror that happened, it was still not an easy decision for him but again he probably knew how much better they'd have turned out if not for their abuse and knew that in principle they couldn't go down for THIS murder.
Har ring molassis abounding
Common lap kitch sardin a poor floundin
. -
stevenackerman69 — 9 years ago(January 14, 2017 11:48 PM)
Yes, I think that was why Father Bobby stuck up for these two punks. He knew who they were now and couldn't do anything about it (they chose this life), but he didn't know about the boys' home stuff and maybe he felt that if he had known back then, he might've saved them from the rapes and beatings. He felt they shouldn't be convicted of this murder.
-
SausagePourVous — 9 years ago(July 27, 2016 10:19 AM)
I could be wrong but I highly doubt that youve experienced and lived the really ugly side of life. Then atleast you wouldnt have a textbook politically correct approach to this matter.
If Nokes was sexually abused as a child is pretty irrelevant. If every weirdo,pervert or creep was attracted to children,had urges but instead of acting on thm,just jerked off to their fantasies and never watched childpornografy,not ONE act affecting or hurting another humanreally,who would have the energy to give a shi-?
Its the very concious,aware decision in a sober state especially to molest a child that confirms and reveals that this person is pure evil and no circumstances have any weight to torture children by buring them with cigarettes,beating them,raping them over and over,all the while doing it with sadistic glee,really getting Off on a childs torment and pain.
Nokes even remembered John and Tommy,which is disturbing in either scenario;he hadnt moletd that many boys and still he carried out these deranged acts hile casually talking about overtime and taxesOr he had wrecked so many lives but got off on knowing their names,knowing whos lives he had destroyed,all of them placed in the pychotic Hall of shame,trophies in his head,maybe to him a destroyed life by his hand was truly worthy of remembrance.
To sympathize with them as children but not as adults is a contradiction or a statement that shows your true nature. Time is just a concept or word we created to sum up our life expectancy,so we dont miss doctors appointments or get to the store in time. This trauma happened when they were 12-13 and from that point on time likely stood still and just existing became a deep pain keeping them from ever living a life that resembled something normal or decent.
If a guy loses his legs,his wife and child due to a drunk driver convicted of DUI on several occasions,do you sympathize with him in that moment? And what if he in his grief and rage payed to have the driver killed two days laterhow about two months,a year and a half? To him,time stands still,he will always be locked in that moment but where does your empathy,not sympathy begin and end?
Dying can be pretty easy,so can taking a life,a trigger is pulled and the curtain come down before you even hear the shot. Wheres the horror in that? The pedohile,Nokes kind more so,his actions are so diabolical,inhumane and irreversible,they trancend the concept of potential justice or the punishment fitting the crime.
To achieve sexual satisfaction and having an orgasm not despite but BECAUSE a young boy or girl,a child who was gonna discover his own sexuality and attraction to the opposite sex pretty soon is crying and screaming from pain and wishing he was dead. Every orifice violated by a grown man who is payed to protect kids he brutalizes and repeats this act over and overare you fakkinkiddinMe??
Destroying a childs ability to live or chance at becoming remotely happy..no matter what,the person will never be as at peace or stabile as it couldve beenand dont give me that "It happened to him or me or etc and that didnt lead to murder and crime",thats child molestor secret sympathize group therapy talk.
None of us know what will break us and which road will lead to self destruction or suicide. To seriouly be talking about it being a choice,going down a destructive life path? At about 13? Sure. About as much choice as being orally and anally raped and tortured for no reason at all except existing..
These two dudes werent psychopats by nature,thats pretty obvious. Young John was the one most devastated over the accident,not thinking about likely consequenses but the injured mans wellbeing. The kid wanted to be a priest. He was a very talented artist about to get into artschool thanks to father Bobby. The drawings we see during the trial symbolize the potential not wasted but stolen. Getting the shi- beaten outta him by his stepdad did Not turn him into a dangerous criminal. He was strong,not weak.
So John and Tommy acted out,their pain manifested itself through violent acts but I still feel like they were more comfortable in their own skin then a non-violent dude like MichaelBecoming what they became is a sane, normal response to a psychotic, cruel chain of events.
They Never asked for your sympathy by the way or anyone elses. Very ironic how you judge them so harsh based on information you are handed by the narrator,the protagonist. Although though those words are meant to clue you in on how dangerous and ruthless they are,just stating obvious factsand you latch on to it like a leech,jump on it like a bitch in heat,you found an angle that helps you disguise or support your obvious but not stated agenda and opinion.
People die everyday,murdered everyday,a killing is mentioned,one regarding a secondary protagonist or tritagonist which is meant to confirm the obvious result of actions and consequenses,Not give the viewer a reason to despice and marginalize the character weve been fol -
stevenackerman69 — 9 years ago(January 14, 2017 11:44 PM)
The funny thing is they became gangsters even after being punished in that boys' home. They didn't turn their lives around into something good, like the other two boys.
In the end, after the trial, they are acquitted, but eventually met their ends themselves, as most criminals do.