Does Upham get a raw deal? Bear with me!
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Saving Private Ryan
mikeyg24 — 9 years ago(September 20, 2016 01:52 PM)
I was watching Fury the other night and for those who haven't seen it the character Norman is assigned bow gunner in a Sherman tank even though previously he was a clerk typist having only been in the army eight weeks. No spoiler it's how the movie starts.
Long story short
just like Upham he freezes and people are killed. As the movie progresses he hardens and in the end one might say he's even the hero of the hour, though I admit that's a matter of interpretation. At the very least he stands up for his buddies.
Isn't Upham nothing more than a civilian in uniform?
We have to show the world that not all of us are like him: Henning von Tresckow
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Hotrodder — 9 years ago(September 21, 2016 01:47 AM)
Both are
very
cliched characters. I groaned when Norman was introduced in Fury because it's just lazy screenwriting. One of the reasons SPR didn't win Best Picture IMO.
Most soldiers were civilians in uniform in most armies. They often had the most basic training to make them soldiers. One of the reasons that Allied PoWs were able to even attempt to escape is because their civilian jobs- tailor, engineer, surveyor, etc -were skills professional soldiers didn't have.
Does Upham get a raw deal? In some ways, yes, because he is morally right when it came to not shooting their prisoner, although as I've said numerous times before they would have (regretfully) shot him IMO because leaving him alive or sending him back to their own lines with an escort would otherwise compromise the mission.
Upham is terrified at his first tastes of battle- he is meant to be the "everyman" figure there, as is Norman in Fury. Upham's two biggest mistakes though is shooting S/Willie dead merely for the man doing his duty and then letting the other he'd taken prisoners go, perhaps to return to their own units (or other units) to carry on killing Allied soldiers. You'd think he'd have learnt
that
lesson by then. Why didn't he keep the Germans he had just captured under gunpoint? There were new arrivals coming to relieve him.
Trust me. I know what I'm doing. -
joekinplaya — 9 years ago(September 25, 2016 09:41 AM)
I interpreted Upham's character more of a way for audience to relate. No doubt Upham represented the "ethical standards" that us viewers had. It was the "right" thing to do but when most people question ethics or ethical dilemmas about our own, people don't seem to understand that there are consequences to "doing the right thing" and in war that consequence is the "right thing" causing your buddies to die. It was a contrast between Upham and the men in the unit searching for Ryan; the men looking for Ryan felt they were VERY different from when they were civilians like they almost didn't deserve to go back home at least after Miller mentioned he was a school teacher. Whereas Upham was already a civilian who still has his innocence of civilian life. He wil think and behave like most audience might behave and think.
I do think these kinds of characters ruin these kind of films. I mean we've seen this before millions of times. The Pacific DOESN'T really do this and thus I thought was much better. -
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Snakecrossing — 9 years ago(November 06, 2016 05:31 PM)
I was hoping for a character who was both a capable fighter and capable of empathy towards the enemy. I suppose that role was for Miller only. I'm not saying letting the german prisoner go was the right choice, but at least there was discussion about it. Had they discussed it more they probably would have ended up with a different choice.
I was so disappointed when Upham completely froze and got his teammates killed. He was making risky leaps in enemy fire but when it was time to walk upstairs to aid his buddies he couldn't do anything. Then again it was his first battle. I don't think anyone can say for sure how they would react in a similar situation when people are dying and shooting at you right and left - no matter how well they've trained. Miller and other soldiers were shown to froze (or do against their training) at the beach and had to pull themselves back together repeatedly to continue. Upham did redeem himself a bit when he stopped a bunch of germans from fleeing, only to let them go minus 1. I would have hoped to see more of his thoughts on the matter. Did he continue his inner battle, leave the battlefield or come to terms with fighting the enemy? -
planetmutty — 9 years ago(November 14, 2016 07:23 PM)
Personally I thought he was a coward, yet I feel conflicted even as I type this. It was pretty poor that he couldn't act when one of his comrades was about to be knifed in the chest. But I'm reluctant to be hard on him because I have never fought in a war and have no idea how I'd react in that situation.
Courage shows itself in different ways though. At the bunker when they rest of the crew wanted to shoot the remaining German soldier, it took a fair bit of courage to stand up and object to this. He had to have known that no one was going to support him and that he was risking further ridicule (or worse) by defending an enemy soldier.
I think your last sentence does sum it up. Upham wasn't in the army to kill people so he was effectively a civilian in a uniform with a gun.
When I said I wanted to be a comedian, they all laughed at me. Well, they're not laughing now! -
Citation_Needed — 9 years ago(January 10, 2017 01:03 AM)
The guy was going to write a friggen book about brotherhood and does more to help the enemy than his "brothers."
He's a piece shyt human being. Someone who thinks they can speak on matters they have no business speaking on. That includes trying to minimalize the death of Wade, who the squad was very attached to. Meanwhile, that prick had more of an attachment to someone who shoots an unarmed medic.
Who they hell is he to defend someone like that, when he's never even been in combat with someone like Wade? This is war. These men needed their closure, their justice, and this prick denied it based on some bullshyt moral high horse. That's not his place to even take that stand/position.
What a douchebag hypocrite.