what kind of sick human beings…
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Wierd_1 — 14 years ago(August 18, 2011 11:26 AM)
could hang a little girl like that? i was so appauled by that scene. I know it's only fiction but whoever wrote that scene is disturbed.
other than that i thought this movie was kinda cheesy but the atmosphere was beyond awesome
They were some sick bastards, that's what they were.
http://www.myspace.com/jodoja -
ghostgate2001 — 13 years ago(December 13, 2012 01:41 PM)
In the original script, Katie is described as being "about 16" and she is raped by the mutineers, then killed with an axe - all in front of her father, who is made to watch.
In the final script the Katie character was made even younger, and the method of her death was changed to hanging, but the basic gist of what happened to her will have remained the same: she was raped and then killed by the mutineers.
Obviously the filmmakers couldn't (and wouldn't) show that happening to a child, but it's still fairly clear what happened to her. The rape is implied by the shot of the mutineers taking her into the cabin and closing the door on the viewer. The choice of hanging as the mutineer's method of killing her doesn't make much practical sense (too slow, and too much trouble for men in a hurry to bother rigging up) so I would say that particular choice was dictated by film-making needs.
With the film-makers unable to show the actual rape and murder of a child, the film needed to communicate two vital pieces of information to the audience in that brief glimpse of the skeletal remains: 1) that the corpse is Katie's (the distinctive dress provides that recognition), and 2) that she was murdered in that room (the fact that her corpse is seen hanging provides that).
Why such an appalling fate for Katie? Well, that's down to the "rules" of ghost stories in general, i.e. that for a person to become a ghost there must have been a great wrong done to them; something too terrible for them to be able to "pass on" without there first being some kind of resolution - if not revenge, then just for someone living to know and understand the story of what happened. -
guardian2415 — 13 years ago(December 20, 2012 06:38 PM)
This is a very sensitive issue, especially in light of the horrendous events at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown Connecticut.
Over the past several years there have been numerous posts concerning Katie relating to the horrific suffering and evil she endured. Like others previously stated, it never even crossed my mind that the film was trying to imply the young child was assaulted. If this was the true intent of the writers, they certainly could have made a much stronger implication. I base this view within the whole context of the story and from the plethora of extra information surrounding the film located on the Ghost Ship webpage, in addition to the extra features of the special edition DVD. The first spec script for Chimera bears little resemblance to the final "Ghost Ship" characters and story.
My contention is this issue getting blown out of proportion in comparison to the bigger picture. Just as with the children in Newton Connecticut, the bottom line is an innocent child was cruelly murdered by evil people. With all the media frenzy surrounding Newtown, it will likely influence depraved others to carry out similar copy cat killings. Therefore, why allow the mind wander so drastically concerning such a minor, ambiguous issue within the story and thereby risk sowing sadistic ideas into peoples heads?
The once elegant and decaying ship is a symbol of changing times. In a similar manner, Katie can be viewed as a symbolic representation of childhood from a more innocent era. Just as the ship decays to ruin from its glorious 1950s splendor, Katies deteriorating childhood possessions and even Katie herself, are evocative symbols of changing times and eroding childhood innocence. In this manner, not only has the innocence of the children in Newtown been lost, but the innocence of childhood everywhere has suffered an excruciating blow.
Generally speaking, 1962 was still a very safe, wholesome and innocent time to grow up That was until events such as the Cuban missile crisis, assignation of JFK and the advent of vicious social/political upheavals began to gnaw away at the youthful spirit of innocence and optimism. Whether it is coincidence or not, Katies death and struggle on the symbolic ship precedes and coincides with these events.
The childhood Katie would have known began to slowly die almost along with her. For those who may doubt that times are changing and that moral values are eroding, you need to look no further than the recent events in Newtown. We lose a piece of soul if we choose not to care about such things. I hope everyone will have a heart and endeavor to be a part of the solution and not part of the problem. -
bigwinwill — 11 years ago(May 17, 2014 02:09 PM)
You mean PResadent not Obama because no matter who is in the big seat or their political group the same thing would happen. Placeing a persons name to it is a ploy by political groups to fight about.
Ace Lions -
met76 — 12 years ago(April 26, 2013 03:45 PM)
The rape is implied by the shot of the mutineers taking her into the cabin and closing the door on the viewer. The choice of hanging as the mutineer's method of killing her doesn't make much practical sense (too slow, and too much trouble for men in a hurry to bother rigging up) so I would say that particular choice was dictated by film-making needs.
It's still not a fact, it's only your interpretation. I know Americans really love to read things out of films and film scenes and claim they have abstract meanings (such as "Katie is a symbol of an innocent era" - lmao) but the only true fact that remains is that all this is nothing but your personal interpretation, not the facts. And dragging someone into a room and closing the door does NOT mean rape at all acounts. Not at all. -
cheluzal — 12 years ago(August 18, 2013 03:22 PM)
It's a basic cinemotography act, closing the door ON the camera strongly implies what happened behind that door.
They are murderers and sickos; rape comes with the territory.
Real LOSERS spell 'loser' looser! -
Alexowens — 11 years ago(July 11, 2014 03:21 AM)
I agree, it's a basic convention of cinema, like the saying about what happens "behind closed doors". I hadn't watched this film for years, but on rewatching last night, I certainly thought that rape or assault was implied, and upon reading a thread saying that a rape scene was in the original script, I think this was definitely the intention.
She is treated differently to all the other passengers. I kept thinking why haven't they just killed her like all the others, until they took her into the room. It's been inserted as one of the most horrific acts that anyone can commit which certainly comes into play later with all the talk of sins etc. This is cinematic shorthand to emphasise how evil these men were: murderers, rapists and showing greed/lust for the gold.
I don't think this type of film would shy away from showing her murder otherwise, like some others have said. It's not Spielberg where children inexplicably don't die. (I'm thinking Jurassic Park, War of the Worlds etc)
Still gives me chills, not nearly as bad as when Rorschach finds evidence of the murdered little girl in Watchmen though :shudders: -
ShadowsGathered — 11 years ago(June 21, 2014 06:36 PM)
You're right the mere act of closing the door doesn't mean rape on its own but the look on Katie's face, when she shows Epps what happened to her, is a look of embarrassment and shame and that doesn't come from simply being killed by hanging also, the very fact they took her into a room and closed the door meant they had something on their minds besides simply killing Katie they weren't shy at all about all the other killings so why would murdering her in front of anyone or everyone bother them? I think the implication is obvious, and it's not a matter of personal interpretation at all.
~ the hardest thing in this world is to live in it ~ -
itsjustdawn81 — 10 years ago(August 25, 2015 03:40 PM)
HAHAHA! I have been reading the comments and wanting to smack people. I have never noticed that rape was implied. I've seen this movie many times and not once did I ever assume she was being raped. Nor do I ever see shame in Katie's face during the flashback scene with Epps. Sorrow/sadness yes, but she was killed for crying out loud.
People see what they want to see. -
verbusen — 12 years ago(May 28, 2013 06:11 PM)
Had this on today (2013) for the first time, it was on the TV, when I watched that all those people were getting cut in half I realized it was sick and twisted and refused to watch any longer. So about 3 minutes in I switched the channel. I guess I'm old school, I don't need to watch bodies get sliced in half to know it happened.
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chilichilipepper — 12 years ago(June 01, 2013 11:05 AM)
Well, then I suggest that if you turn on the TV, and the movie says horror, change the channel?
How come I have a feeling that you had bo problem with the opening scene of Saving Private Ryan where people were getting cut into pieces by bullets (in a scene that was way more realistic and bloody than anything in Ghost Ship). -
Gaodhal — 11 years ago(July 11, 2014 05:52 AM)
The death of the girl as depicted in the film made little sense. Why bring her to her own cabin to kill her? Why go to the bother of hanging her?
This wasn't a Manson Family-esque group of nutters on a murderous rampage, motivated by a sadistic desire to inflict suffering and death. Their purpose was to dispatch the passengers and take the gold.
I suspect a late script re-write.
It's likely that the girl, alone on the ship after the deaths of the others, was originally supposed to have hung herself in her cabin.
Later, there were either second thoughts about the depiction of a child suicide, or it was felt her suicide conflicted with the image of her soul being pure and innocent - "unmarked".
Nl aon scilen mar do scilen fin. -
guardian2415 — 11 years ago(July 20, 2014 02:58 PM)
Many viewers of the film agree with your premise Gaodhal.
Anyone who has followed Ghost Ship from its earlier inceptions as a relatively bloodless mystery thriller are probably well acquainted with the later rewrites.
In the final version of the film there are events and characters who do things which make little sense. As stated, the character of Katie is most perplexing. However, interviews along with edited and alternate scenes provide some of the missing background information. Consider the following questions:
Q: How does Katie get blood on her dress?
A: Recall she got off completely unscathed during the cable incident, so she picked up the stain another way. I read one source which claims she tried to help an injured passenger.
Q: After the cable incident why does Katie run into danger against the flow of fleeing passengers?
A: She tries to get to her friend and trusted caregiver "The Friendly Officer." Notice a concerned passenger has to hold Katie to keep her from running to her friend despite the fact two malevolent conspirators were using him as a lure so they could murder her.
Q: Why didn't the two nefarious crewmen just murder Katie as soon as they caught her?
A1: This scene was filmed more than once and with missing dialogue. It appears something happened in the backstory with the homicidal crewmen, which for them made murdering Katie an act of revenge. They clearly wanted her to suffer while at the same time die quickly.
A2: Since she was just a young child, other shipmates kept trying to save Katie. Watch closely and you can even see her mouthing "help me!" and a few mates vainly attempting to do so.
A3: The evil crewmen didn't want anyone to know they murdered Katie. The murder of a sweet, innocent child was considered so reprehensible even some of the other conspirators wanted to spare her. The note in Katie's stateroom from the ship's purser and Francesca is one example of this. Recall Katie was the only child onboard.
A4: Epps finding Katie's hanging remains added to the emotional and dramatic affect. The art department worked to the the nth degree on Katie's remains. If you look closely you can see her wrists were bent up indicating the two conspirators had to hold her arms down until she died.
A5: There is (or at least was) a written and unwritten morality clause about toning down the murder of children onscreen. Hence, Katie's murder is not directly shown, however, the number on her cabin door "404" indicates she had been on the ship 40 years and 4 months. Closing doors are also a favorite way for directors to transition scenes. Symbolically, a closing door indicates a life being slammed shut (death).
I could write at length, but this is enough to ponder for now. -
Lost_Woods87 — 11 years ago(October 27, 2014 02:23 PM)
I tend to agree with some of that but I disagree with some. I don't know why it was such a mystery that Katie had blood on her dress. People were getting shot up and cut up left and right. I'm actually surprised she wasn't soaked. As far as why the crewmen didn't kill her when they caught her, well you partially answered that yourself as well as did another user. Remember, Jack had to manipulate the crew. He had to tempt them by playing to their personality and their individual desires like he tried to do with Epps and her crew. He simply tempts them with gold and their other desires and watches as they greatly commit a plethora of sins to work towards what they want. Some users claim Katie was raped and then hung because the guys wanted her to die slowly and as you stated they used the unaware and friendly officer to lure her in. Who is to say that deep down they weren't psycho pedophiles giving into a sick sexual desire? The "trap" and how they killed her sure fits. The fact that it is all vague and happens off-screen kills 2 birds with one stone by giving no definite answer and by avoiding a gory child murder and possible rape scene