How can this happen in the European Paradise?
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poem — 10 years ago(September 17, 2015 11:53 PM)
Actually they do, they are officially all democracies, just like USA, Russia, Japan the only exception among the powerful countries is China.
Even if they wouldnt, it wasnt referenced anywhere in my posting and isnt relevant.
You shall have no other Kates before Kate Winslet. -
bite_me_loser_86 — 14 years ago(August 02, 2011 09:24 PM)
Oh, please, if you're going to act all smug, at least get your facts right.
Lilja didn't grow up in EU. She grew up in a poor area of the former USSR. Girls like her had no other choice but to 'go downtown and spread their legs' as her aunt said. There was obviously no welfare system in place and no authorities that were going to take care of her.
If she had been living in the EU and been abandoned by her mom, yes authorities would have taken care of her. She would get fed, clothed and a warm house to live in and probably also some pocket money to spend. WHen she turned 18 she would have gotten help finding an apartment. She would not have been forced to prostitute herself. I live in Sweden and something like this couldn't happen to a 16-year-old girl here. For you to not understand that there are considerable differences in living standards between former USSR and the Western European countries just proves that you like many Americans, it seems, view Europe as one homogenous collection of small 'socialist' countries.
But yes, quite a lot of trafficking goes on in Sweden. As it does all over the world, even in your precious USA. That is something authorities are trying to control of course. And young girls like Lilja, if rescued, would definitely not be sent back home, as her pimp scared her into believing. They'd be taken care of. -
turkeyprophet — 13 years ago(April 09, 2012 06:35 AM)
The European Union in not a place it is a union. It's like watching a film about Mexico and then complaining that NAFTA isn't the paradise you were told it was.
Also Estonia wasn't a member of the EU when this film came out so it has none of the privileges that the EU provides. -
thommickel — 13 years ago(April 11, 2012 05:24 AM)
re: "We Americans have been told, repeatedly, that the European Union is a paradise and nearly-perfect society."
Where, exactly, have you ever been told that the EU is a "paradise and nearly-perfect society"?
All I ever read in the U.S. media is lots and lots of Euro-bashing, talking about how America is vastly superior to Europe in every way. And nobody bashes Europe more than the supposedly "Liberal" New York Times.
Of course, the vast, vast majority of Americans have absolutely zero idea of what the rest of the world is like. There is an enormous amount of misinformation that we're told (starting in our abysmal public school systems).
All I ever hear about from the U.S. media is how Europe is a gloomy, depressing, hellish, socialist, economic basket case that is way, way behind America in every respect. -
LadyKosha — 13 years ago(April 24, 2012 12:21 PM)
- Show me a link to anyone of influence who has said the EU is anyone's paradise.
- This is set in Russia and Russia IS NOT IN THE EU!!!
"I still don't understand it, why they hate us so much" - Valerie, V for Vendetta
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ranegonzales — 13 years ago(February 18, 2013 08:30 AM)
Hmmm Not an easy question to answer, but EU is not nearly as perfect as you might think. I live in a quite small town in Finland an I can say: it isn't perfect.
Like in the movie 'Lilja 4-Ever', men give money to Lilja's pimp to have sex with Lilja. This kinds of things happen even in EU. Like in the movie, I've heard those kinds of things happening, and I've also heard that there is some Finnish men, who pay to do something as horrible as that. -
Nikulturny — 12 years ago(April 27, 2013 02:37 PM)
Sarcasm much?
At the time the movie is set - about 2001/2002 - Estonia wasn't a member of the EU. It was still trying to recover from the collapse of the Soviet Union, which it had been a part of, and was struggling financially. It joined the EU on 1 May 2004 and is now fairly prosperous. However, some EU states are relatively poor - the Slovak Republic or Romania, for example, are still well behind Western standards of living despite having been EU states for a few years.
I don't know what social services existed in pre-EU Estonia but I think Lilja must have been 16 during the events of the film, or she would have been taken into government care once they found out she'd been abandoned by her mother. She already had an apartment, her troubles arose because she didn't have any source of money. -
LopiPingstocking — 9 years ago(May 23, 2016 01:38 PM)
Last time I checked Slovakia ranked at #147 in the poorest countries list which was better than Estonia and for the record the UK, for example, ranked at #159.
I know I don't live in the richest country in the world, but the living standard of the majority here is good.
Assuming something general about a country based on a movie is pointless.
Based on some films I've seen, I could assume that everyone in the USA is illiterate and lives in a mobile home or that people in Europe just drink alcohol all the time and have sex or whatever else. -
poem — 10 years ago(September 17, 2015 11:55 PM)
You seriously believe that human trafficking would be limited to certain countries ?!?!? Prostitution is illegal in Sweden.
Besides, it was child prostitution. Thats illegal EVERYWHERE.
You shall have no other Kates before Kate Winslet. -
alioth4 — 10 years ago(August 29, 2015 04:07 AM)
If you're talking about Sweden, the main problem is that she had no clue just what rights she would have had, had she gone to the police. She didn't even know where Sweden was before she left for the place, let alone anything about the country. And she was slowly "broken" by her pimp, and scared by his threats of what would happen if she did try to escape.
Once she finally did take the opportunity to escape out of desperation, she didn't know the language, didn't think she could trust anyone (she was aware she had entered the country illegally I thinkwhat with the fake name on the passport, which she didn't have anymore anyway), etc. And police were probably people she was conditioned to avoid in her homeland as wellthat too is the case in a lot of places, where police are so corrupt that dealing with them (from a position of powerlessness) is a real crapshoot at best. (And of course prostitutes are subject to arrest or harassment by cops in most places, likely her homeland as well, whether pimping is involved or not.)
Humans are trafficked everywhere, into Europe, the US and Canada, wealthier Asian countries, etc., from places and lives where they knew very little if anything of the concept of human rights, lives where they were virtually powerless. They had no real rights to speak of where they came from (or were treated all their lives as if they had none), so they don't expect any different in the new place. Couple this with the intimidation of being in a foreign land where they don't even speak the language or know how to fit in there. And of course the threats of those who imprison and "own" them. In the end, even in places where their basic human rights would be honored if they came forward, they still have to know to come forwardunless someone particularly conscientious of the human trafficking problem (who knows the signs of it), or police actually on such cases, notice them first (and aren't bribed to look away). Even in nations that regard human rights most highly, there are still going to be too many (well, even
one
is too many) who slip through the cracks.
I kept "telling" her through the screen, when she was being dragged through the mall by her pimp (who was all but manhandling her by the arm), to shout or scream or something, to make it obvious she was there against her will even if she didn't know the language. But of course she was too afraid to even do that. She obviously didn't expect anyone would come to her aid. She could never expect that in her old life in her home country, with the only one she (quite hesitantly at first) mustered the trust to accept "help" from (Andrei) having so completely betrayed her. It was so frustrating, sad, and unimaginable to me to watch this play out as it did to the tragic end.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.