incongruities and contradictions
-
Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Babylon A.D.
Promontorium — 14 years ago(November 13, 2011 03:30 PM)
I'm sure I'm late to the party but I just watched this film. As much as I wanted to like this movie, it didn't seem to want to be liked. It lacked any internal consistency to the point that I began wondering if it was intentionally contradictory.
Some examples that stood out; the Sister upon meeting Toorop lists 3 rules she expects of him, then never brings them up again, in the many many instances where they were broken. It seemed as if they aimed straight for the worst places they could possibly find to violate her rule about senses and experiencing the real world. This goes straight into another oddity, he wasn't smuggling Aurora, there was no government agency out to stop them, he had the credentials, he had the backing of Gorsky and an apparently powerful and wealthy religious organization, why the hell did he have to slum it like a refugee into America? NO ONE WANTED TO STOP THEM.
They develop a rapport from the beginning, yet in 6 days they never bother to talk about where they're going and who they are meeting up with? It seemed like none of them put 2 and 2 together until the last moment when they realized it wasn't just a regular visit to the doctor.
If the girl processed like a computer, could stop explosions with her mind, could dodge bullets, etc. why did she let the Sister die, and why did she have to kill Toorop? With that kind of power and intelligence you'd think she could just duck out of a back window and find her dad.
Why did her father just roll over and let the church leader kill him? He had all that money, technology, could bring people back from the dead, had the most loyal goons in history, and he couldn't stop someone from just walking up to him and putting a bullet in him?
Speaking of which, what kind of religion could last for decades upon decades and apparently be led by a psycho business woman and a team of cronies who all apparently
know
their religion is a scam, I might be wrong, and I realize she's really old, but I thought the time frame of 80 years was thrown out, which would make the religion too old for the woman to have always been in charge. There's also no accounting for why they would blow up the convent. If they wanted Aurora as a miracle, if they wanted her as a symbol for the church to boost its numbers, why would they kill the very people who could immediately corroborate that the girl is in fact special, raised by the church, and a miracle? If your goal is more numbers and publicity, why do you kill your numbers and squash your pr team? It's completely backwards and seems to be just to follow the cliche' evil boss who kills everyone once they're done with them, but in this case, she absolutely wasn't done with them, she would have needed them more than ever. Now without the convent, people would just ask where she came from and why the church has any claim to her, and the church would have no response except "uh, I swear she's been in our church her whole life, it's a shame everyone she's ever met is dead, but please believe in her and get to know her, we swear being around her won't get you killed too." Doesn't it sound insanely stupid when you air it out?
The whole possible virus host subplot was inexplicably stupid.
And I've saved the best for last, just like the film. Thanks to Diesel's over explanation in trying to narrate this crap, we are to understand her actual only purpose is to have babies. Why? Didn't the father say she was just a prototype of a human infused with computer processing power? Who mentioned the babies until the end? And why would you design a person to die in childbirth? That's just impractical. And what about the babies, is it their destiny now to grow to about 16 become pregnant inexplicably and only days after figuring out their true potential to die giving birth to the next pointless generation? Doesn't the whole "born to give birth" aspect absolutely contradict the whole idea of making humans better, less like wild animals, more intelligent, more calculated? All this does is mandate animalistic instinctual procreation for the sake of procreation. The very moment she realized her true potential, she is debilitated and killed by babies. This is just offensively stupid.
As I said, I wanted to like this film. I still kind of did, I liked the atmosphere, I liked the contrasts, the future appeared dystopian, then you realize it's just the same situation as always, some countries are poor and violent, others are more wealthy and peaceful. For all this I gave it a 4. For making absolutely no sense I gave it a 4. For contradicting every "point" made in the film I gave it a 4. -
Luckz — 14 years ago(December 24, 2011 06:46 PM)
"Some examples that stood out; the Sister upon meeting Toorop lists 3 rules she expects of him, then never brings them up again, in the many many instances where they were broken."
Forgot to mention how she also drank out of his flask eventually.
Maybe it was to show her as a somewhat sheltered idealist initially. I don't find this very relevant to the movie, in any case.
"Why did her father just roll over and let the church leader kill him? He had all that money, technology, could bring people back from the dead, had the most loyal goons in history, and he couldn't stop someone from just walking up to him and putting a bullet in him? "
Mostly wondered why he didn't take Miss High Priestess with him. Gotta have some form of explosives on hand.
"Speaking of which, what kind of religion could last for decades upon decades and apparently be led by a psycho business woman and a team of cronies who all apparently know their religion is a scam"
There's a lot of those IRL. Are you oblivious to that?
"The whole possible virus host subplot was inexplicably stupid."
Why? If 'she is carrying something', it sure might be a direct weapon. Storing information in humans is a common theme in cyberpunk.
"Who mentioned the babies until the end?"
I suppose the viewers were to be surprised by the shock revelation of virgin pregnancy (wondering for a moment or three if Vicious Vin did it).
"And why would you design a person to die in childbirth? That's just impractical. And what about the babies, is it their destiny now to grow to about 16 become pregnant inexplicably and only days after figuring out their true potential to die giving birth to the next pointless generation?"
Seemed to me like the point was for her to kickstart this Human 2.0 thing without herself seeing it in person, due to her being the mentioned prototype/rush job, 'not built to last'. So in staying with the whole religious theme, her kids are CyberAdam & CyberEve and not going to meet an as untimely fate as she did.
Gonna give you a bonus plot hole though:
How can a AI infused into a human make them see/feel the future, be invulnerable to explosions but not to childbirth (admittedly the former allegedly was the SuperTwins themselves at work) and feel people die (!)? I can live with "knows how to operate a Russian sub", but the rest? They don't fit.
And somebody explain the monkey stunts by the guys (apparently) sent by her father early in the movie to me. Didn't they realise while filming this that those looked beep -
Promontorium — 12 years ago(April 10, 2013 01:15 AM)
- My point still stands. She gave 3 rules and then it became nothing. Pointless dialog trying to establish something that was never developed. The definition of a plot hole. Regardless of how it makes you feel. It was a plot point, and then nothing happened, hence "hole".
- Father point still stands
- You cut off my sentence, I was asking how it could be led by someone who couldn't have been its founder, and I went on to elaborate, particularly why would they kill their own followers? The whole thing seemed incongruous and disjointed.
- Because the virus subplot had nothing to do with anything. It was just tossed in there.
- That still doesn't explain why she was designed to die. It's impractical. What if there was a problem? What if she gave birth away from anyone else, the babies die? Why? The whole point of a mother is to care for the young. Intentionally designing someone to die at the most critical juncture makes no sense. What the hell doesn't anyone care if she "witnesses" the next generation? She wasn't made by a God, there was no actual destiny, she was an experimentdesigned to failinexplicably.
-
Promontorium — 12 years ago(April 10, 2013 12:57 AM)
All my plotholes were well defined. If you don't know the difference between a glaring plothole, and an expectation for "perfection" I am not the one to distinguish them for you, you must seek this information on your own.
Sadly I will never watch this ridiculous movie again, so I'm not going to remind myself why these plotholes are so damn obvious and ruining of the film. I'm sorry neither of you appreciates how aptly I dissected this film. -
jgarber4444 — 12 years ago(April 10, 2013 05:04 PM)
Promontorium: You've taken the time to point out some of the reasons why this film is a complete load of nonsense, I don't think that anyone can reasonably defend it. I think it is clear the script is abject, the plot is confused, the direction and editing are appalling and the acting is poor (especially Vin Diesel's standard offering). Vague statements that appear in this forum for Babylon A.D. over and over. No more needs be said really, except perhaps the original book (Babylon Babies) makes more sense and perhaps the Directors cut actually is a vastly superior movie (not a difficult task), though I doubt it.
In some threads posters mentioned Blade Runner in the same breath as BAD, but the films sit at opposite ends of spectrum. BAD has an interesting premise at heart, but was ruined by a poorly executed effort at film-making. Maybe save your thoughts for something worthy of your time, try the Man From Earth (2007) for example. A fantasy, but vastly different. There are a lot more films deserving of consideration than Kassovitz's. -
ChazzJazz — 12 years ago(August 14, 2013 11:13 AM)
Meh, Man from Earth was just pointless if not boring..MFE and Moon, great concepts perhaps, but just not entertainment, and i think Blade Runner is a top 3 movie eva.
As for the OP? Who cares what a genocidal cult does to a church and worshippers LOL
The "Father" made Aurora for the Priestess to produce Human v2.0, those babies were the new Parishioners, cult members not the rejects in the Russian Church.
My guess is the Priestess doesnt want people to know Aurora's origins, or wanted to blame the Father's organization for the massacre, or just wanted to punish the church for stealing the girl..you know, the "genocidal" part in the cult.
Yes her shooting the Father was odd, but it looked like a father's sacrifice, to allow Vicious Vin to find the girl and get her to safety.
http://myimpressionz.tk