I am just wondering if Jack was murdered because of his sexuality or was it really an accident. Did Jack purposely put h
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edinabb — 9 years ago(November 23, 2016 03:21 AM)
OK, pardon. I read "get away with it" as in breaking rules.
For the rules beholden to marriage, I thought rdjenkins-4's "nebulous" referred to Laureen's wifely intuitions. It could be any amount of denial, rationalizing, or tolerating Jack, as long as they keep a facade.
(eg. don't "flaunt" as some kind of "respect" for her; though by the tavern they both knew the score. Staying together was easier than the mess of splitting their joint interests. An inertia common in many marriages. It's perfectly in line with Lee's early work, of a person suppressing their personal desires and wishes, to serve a "greater good" of family and society. Live in quiet desperation, within one's duty.)
For the rules beholden to a region's mores and ethics, your idea of "nebulous" is about how much or well homosexual behavior blends into heterosexual activities. Right? And its absence in public awareness is by the very real presence of fear, hatred, disgust, and violence - shall the behaviors NOT blend well enough.
So it's about logistics. Much of the furor upon this movie's release, was the timeless pasttimes like fishing and camping for men to "be men" away from the burdens of family life took on a homoerotic identity presented as even more emotionally profound, as very brief moments of being free from a restrictive society. This made for constant source of amusement and jokes, for people to reconcile what's been derided, feared or downright loathed, not just as its own Eden for the socially reviled, but that which overlaps with the much less oppressed heterosexual men who are simply getting away from nagging wives and crying babies. Boys time.
This forced an uncomfortable closing of the gap, for the in-group to relate to the out-group, by sharing very different meanings of the same activities passed down through generations. Suddenly men camping and fishing together, can take a Brokeback joke, like some stop-gap hold-off from bashing a guy's head in next time, if you thought he may have shot you a glance that's "funny".
Then you have the ambiguity inherent in the tradition of men getting to "be men", away from their wives. It allows ac amount of emotional distance (not quite cheating or "emotional affairs", though some wives joke about being left out of the strong camaraderie of in-jokes and exclusive experiences among their husbands and friends.) This is what Alma and Laureen contend with: their lower social status, is in some ambiguous position relative to men who won't be exiled to lower status as long as they're deemed heterosexual (enough.) Both clung onto each other as long as it suited them.
As per your use of "reckless" and "control": These two had enough "male privilege" in the in-groups of their regions, to "blend in" without restricted movement (trucks; itinerant jobs), being monitored (didn't some "oral history" books of actual ~farmhands say there wasn't much surveillance on solitary jobs, already short on manpower?) If they can move around (more than house-bound wives), and not get under much surveillance (of watchful eyes in motels, mountains; of sex tourism; of growing tolerance over time - like meeting Randall on couples night, vs. earlier "cruising" at a bar), it's hard for moral outrage to intervene effectively and timely in the form of vigilante "justice".
Then you have self-censoring or repression (Ennis), and evasive conversations (rural laborer or business owners don't do talkative marriages.) That's the funny thing about different kinds of isolation: your spirits may be drained, you're also left alone enough to be protected from the slowness of "progress", from many others having to change their minds and ways to accept you in their midst (again, if you don't "flaunt" or look visibly too different - like skin color.)
As Jack is the favorite anti-example of keeping one's well-being within a group's strict ethics and guidelines, there are still several scenarios to justify his death, if the movie's primary interest is a detailed portrait of Ennis living every sinew of his traumatic fear. What ironic resemblance of this curdling of all that's free and alive in him, to the much admired classic masculine ideal. Endure all of life's hardships and sorrows to the bitter end - with a stoic demeanor. That's the best kind of getting away when you're different - blend into one of the oldest ideals. -
audioinklined — 9 years ago(April 26, 2016 06:24 PM)
You know, the vibe I got was that Jack was murdered. I think there is a good chance that his wife was loosely involved or at least knew the actual details of it, other than what she relayed to Ennis.
I think the Anna Farris' characters husband lured Jack out to somewhere, and ambushed him with the group and killed him.
I am not sure Ennis really envisioned the truth of the murder as we the audience see it. I think we are secretly shown the truth of the situation behind Jacks wifes story, as it's being told.
I think Jacks parents even met his killer, and didn't know it, as we later learn of Jack bringing another man to meet them. -
mederomartinez-20002 — 9 years ago(May 01, 2016 12:48 AM)
Ana faris's husband was just another closeted cowboy, and it's revealed at the end by the dad they had been seeing each other and jack had plans of moving in together just like he did with Enis in the past, so him being behind jack's murder seems very unlikely and out of character to me.
I do believe what we see is what Enis imagined, otherwise the scene at the beginning of Enis, his dad and the corpse of the gay neighbor makes no sense, however, I also believe Laureen is not saying the truth.
Previously known as college dropout kid. -
RP_Mac_27 — 9 years ago(May 25, 2016 12:26 PM)
Being that Jack died in 1983, was very promiscuous and engaged in filthy unprotected penetrations from all over parts of North America, his wife and family could have lied about everything to save face he died of aids. After all by 1983 the media had already dubbed the term the gay plague. Ennis on the other hand stopped long ago from taking high risks with his dip stick. Just another possibility to consider
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fanaticita — 9 years ago(August 08, 2016 02:12 PM)
According to the short story near the end when Ennis visit's Jack's family, he learned that Jack had chose another guy to build a cabin with him and move into it. Maybe Jack's new friend had other motives. That's when Ennis realized it must have been the tire iron and that Jack's death was not an accident. Just my opinion.
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Lester_Burnham_Risen — 9 years ago(August 08, 2016 04:42 PM)
another guy to build a cabin with him and move into it
As dad says he was all talk and that was just a fleeting ref to Randel, who had no desire to give up his wife to become Jack's slave like poor Ennis.
http://www.kindleflippages.com/ablog/ -
rdjenkins-4 — 9 years ago(November 18, 2016 11:35 PM)
Jack only suffered a broken jaw and nose. He suffocated on his own blood that came from his wounds. He didn't die from the injuries themselves.
If someone had intended to murder Jack, he did a piss-poor job of it. Now, I could imagine an angry ex taking one good swipe with a tire iron and feeling vindicated, but not someone with intentional murder on their mind. With Jack,it would have been manslaughter at best, in a fair court of law. The man from Ennis' childhood was beaten to a pulp and was emasculated as well. Big difference. Clearly murder one, there, and obviously more than one assailant.
There's nothing in what Lureen says to even hint that Jack's death happened in any way other than what she says happened. The overlaid violent imagery is from Ennis' own mind ["No, he thought, they got him with the tire iron."] and it gives us a chance to project our own thoughts onto what we're seeing. I think the director intended it that way. Ennis envisions
three
men attacking Jack. Jack didn't endure the level of damage one would expect from multiple attackers. In the story, Lureen only mentions that by the time someone came along, Jack was dead. Some ONE. Other than Jack, that's the only person Lureen mentions. Ennis has provided the "they".
In the short story, it's clear Ennis comes up with the tire iron beating scenario on his own, and later at Jack's family home, he does it again on his own only that time, it's a result of his remembering a violent episode between Jack and his father.
I think Annie Proulx's purpose was to say something about violence between men and between men and boys and the damage it does and how that damage can really mess with your mind, for a lifetime.