I Despise murderers
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Saw III
jbjjunk — 16 years ago(July 04, 2009 11:12 PM)
I know you can explain this with, "John's insane," but I want to see if there's a more creative answer out there. If John hates murders, which is repeated, why does he encourage some of his subjects to murder? (Eg, Amanda digging thru the stomach of her cell mate and Gordon killing Adam.)
Perhaps this is an evolution of John of a reworking of his character by the writers. The encouraged murders stop by III where he gives the despising line. -
m_filice87 — 16 years ago(July 23, 2009 12:42 PM)
no, because hitler and the gustapo never said that murdering jews was bad, they encouraged it they only told others to do it. jigsaw, on the other hand, purely contradicts himself. the best example of his "murder as evil" philosophy is in the trap of saw 5, where "5 becomes 1" by playing with words he was testing the group's perception on their view of the other's importance to live while urging them not to kill one another this theme should have been consistent in the saw franchise, or maybe this contradiction will be elaborated on further on second thought, probably not. i hoped other things to be elaborated on, like the plot holes for instance. but nooopppeeee, these writers arent as smart as we think they are
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Mark_Hoffman — 16 years ago(August 17, 2009 11:03 AM)
One thing that confuses me about amandas test was that someone had to die to live. That is encouraging murder. later in the series this is corrected so everyone has a chance to live but amandas test made no sense. SOME ONE HAD TO DIE IN ORDER TO LIVE for her test.
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argento1970 — 16 years ago(August 31, 2009 08:06 PM)
As far as Amanda's test goes, that kinda made me wonder too. Amanda had to kill someone in order to survive. But, I have a theory. John drugs the guy and rather than figure out a way for the guy to swallow the key, he makes a small incision in the guy's stomach and stitches it up. He then covers the incision with the paint he uses to make the question mark. This would simplify having to rumage through the guy's guts. All Amanda would have to do is look carefully at the question mark, see the slit and slice through the stitches. But, Amanda was in a panic, causing her to simply gut the guy. Don't forget most of the subjects fail their tests because they panic.
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bropepe2 — 16 years ago(September 24, 2009 11:39 AM)
I sort of agree with argento70 but you also have to realise, the guy was drugged to the gills. Not only did Jigsaw say that he was only semi-conscious, he also said he couldn't feel a thing. It's a bit of a plot hole I suppose but then again, he despised Amanda.
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koffeenkreame41-1 — 9 years ago(July 16, 2016 05:43 PM)
Actually Amanda made the games unwinabble because she beleived people didn't change. She was very vengefull.
Also John has a god complex there he thinks what he is doing is right.
This. That was Amanda's downfall and the whole reason why he tested her yet again.
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RobBase086-1 — 16 years ago(September 25, 2009 02:01 PM)
It is hard to explain what his logic or method in the way he set things up. He might have just lost it and felt it was justify to do it.
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keith123300-1 — 16 years ago(October 06, 2009 01:29 PM)
Yeah, it's just a re-write of his character.
Jigsaw from the sequels is not the smae Jigsaw from the first film - figuratively speaking.
The Jigsaw from the first film actively encouraged murder. Not only with Amanda's game and the bathroom game, but with Zepp too having to kill Alison and Diana if Dr Gordon didn't kill Adam. Not to mention he slit Tapp's throat.
They then changed the concept of his character to be more sympathetic in order for people to relate and understand him in the sequels. -
Subion — 16 years ago(October 17, 2009 11:28 PM)
Both people could have survived Amanda's game. She started the timer by jumping around. You seen when she got to the cellmate that he was starting to wake up. If she wouldn't have pulled the safety pin out of the clock she would not have had a count down. She could havwe set there till either the police showed up (or someone found her) since we don't know where her game took place. Or she could have waited for the cellmate to wake up (I know she thinks he was dead but if she would have looked he was breathing) he could have went for help or look for a way to deactivate the device.
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LoupGarouTFTs — 16 years ago(October 22, 2009 09:26 PM)
Psychologically speaking, it's possible for John to be telling the truth when he has encouraged murder and yet says that he despises murderers. He uses the excuse that his traps are morality plays, but the fact is that people often hate what they most resemble. That is, John was driven to murder and used other people to commit the murders for him so that he could feel moral superiority, instead of killing the people himself. He despises himself for feeling the need to kill, but through his traps gives himself moral and intellectual superiority because he's not committing the acts and, presumably, he's giving the subjects the chance to refuse to commit murder and choose their fates instead.
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welshy023 — 16 years ago(October 24, 2009 06:02 PM)
Very interesting point Loup.
My take is that he had to have a few people killed in order for his games to work. He had to slit Tapp's throat in order to escape and continue his games of morality. He probably feels he is not on the same level of selfishness as a murdurer, seeing as his murders are for the greater good (or so he thinks) of people.
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Trackmaster — 12 years ago(November 03, 2013 09:57 AM)
Another thing about Amanda's game/test is that it's not fair for her to say "the game helped me, so it should help every out." That's BS, she got off easy! All she had to do was kill somebody and hunt for a key in their body. Everybody else had to sever their own limbs or permanently mutilate themselves to survive! I doubt that you would be praising John for the rest of your left if you had to walk around as a mutated freak for the rest of your life!
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Trackmaster — 12 years ago(November 03, 2013 09:57 AM)
Another thing about Amanda's game/test is that it's not fair for her to say "the game helped me, so it should help every out." That's BS, she got off easy! All she had to do was kill somebody and hunt for a key in their body. Everybody else had to sever their own limbs or permanently mutilate themselves to survive! I doubt that you would be praising John for the rest of your left if you had to walk around as a mutated freak for the rest of your life!