Can people at least agree Jessie was justified.. (spoiler)
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Transsiberian
cheepnis — 17 years ago(April 03, 2009 11:49 PM)
..to keep hitting Carlos until he stopped coming at her? I would want any woman I care about to do the same thing in the same situation. Male or female, if a guy bigger and stronger than you chases you, tackles you, and will not give up when you say no, wouldn't you do everything you could to make him stop? And later we find out he's a criminal with a history of sexual assault, and maybe even murder.
I can't believe how many people are saying what a terrible character she was, and how she deserved much worse. She shouldn't have led him on, or even gone to the church with him, but at least she had the sense to stop. Blue balls are not a legit excuse for rape. -
mwerner6 — 16 years ago(April 07, 2009 12:32 AM)
Yeah, she did good. I was cheerin for her. But she frustrated the crap outta me later in the movie when she kept makin lies up that were horrible when she just coulda said "he tried raping me until I hit him over the head, I ran and didnt look back I dont know where he went."
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cheepnis — 16 years ago(April 07, 2009 03:51 PM)
I agree with being frustrated with how she kept lying I think that goes back to the French guy on the train at the beginning who told the story of the guy who lost his toes to the Russian police. She wanted to get out with the least amount of involvement possible, and it's understandable to want to avoid going to trial in a foreign country for murder or manslaughter.
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Pequod88 — 16 years ago(April 20, 2009 02:34 PM)
She was certainly justified in attacking him viciously. She had every right to change her mind. If Carlos takes her change of heart like a man and does not chase her, he is neither struck nor killed. That said, it seems fair, from the way the scene was shot, to argue that she did not have to beat him to death to avoid assalt. When the detective later reveals that Carlos had previously committed sexual assalt, it is easier to give Jesse the benefit of the doubt. While his prior bad acts would not have helped her in court, it makes it safe to assume he was not chasing her for one more kiss. Carlos was headed to jail or the grave; Jesse simply hurried him on his way.
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bing-57 — 16 years ago(July 06, 2009 09:35 AM)
She was certainly justified in attacking him viciously. She had every right to change her mind.
You do realize that many things in life can't be changed just because you have second thoughts. And in those cases where you can change your mind, you often have to pay a severe penalty.
If you sign a contract and change your mind, too bad. If you jump out of a window and then suddenly decide that suicide is a bad idea, tough noogies. If you buy a car and then change your mind, you pay a big price.
Jessie essentially asked for it when she told Carlos that he's a guy that she would have liked to have sex with. How can anyone not take that as an offer?
Then, she went to an out-of-the-way church with the guy. It should have been obvious that she would have no options if he tried to have his way with her. She was ready to go all the way with him.
And then when he made his move, she did go along with it.
C'mon now, there has to be some kind of substantial penalty for leading him on and then changing her mind at the last minute.
Or are you one of those people that assumes that the woman can always do whatever she wants without consequence?
I'll bet you always order the lobster, don't you?
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)? -
bing-57 — 16 years ago(July 18, 2009 06:49 PM)
If I knew you and you were dating my sister and you said that i would seriously beep you up.
Wow. You seem to have some seriously messed up morals there.
Let's review. When YOU use violence to enforce your opinion, that's okay and actually a good thing. When someone else uses force to support their opinion, it's wrong and deserving of a punching.
Frankly, if your sister tells a guy that she wants to fvck him and then follows him to a deserted location an hour's drive away from civilization in a country where no one speaks your language, you really should be having a talk with your sister, not the guy who takes her up on her offer.
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)? -
bing-57 — 16 years ago(July 20, 2009 02:14 PM)
You're the one basically saying that women should be raped even after they say "No".
I am saying that when someone makes an agreement they should follow through with it. It really shouldn't matter whether it's an agreement to buy a car, or have sex, or cast your vote, or pay for a service, or get married, or whatever.
If you make an agreement and then renege at the last minute, there is always a penalty to be paid. Why do women get a free pass just because the agreement involves sex?
Do you realize that if I promise to marry a woman and give her a ring and then I renege at the last minute, she can sue me for breach of contract and, by law, she gets to keep the ring?
She was attracted to him, they got caught up in the moment and then she changed her mind.
Now replace "sex" with "buy a house" and see whether she can get any of her deposit back when she decides not to buy the house at the last minute.
Sorry dude, I'm sure it happens and I'm sure it sucks but you can go jack off at home later.
Ah yes. I see where you are coming from. Women should never be held accountable for their actions or words. I have to wonder why you think women are so inferior that they have to be treated like children.
There is no excuse for rape no matter what.
I do agree. But what penalty do you think she should pay for leading a guy on all evening and then changing her mind at the last minute? Do you think she should then offer to pay her fair share of the evening's expenses?
"Sorry Bob. I have a headache. Here's $50 for the lobster and movie."
Or are you still of the mind that women are entitled to do whatever they want and never face consequences?
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)? -
bing-57 — 16 years ago(July 26, 2009 11:07 PM)
I'm pretty sure there's NO penalty if I decide at the last moment not to buy a house.
Call up a realtor and ask before you post.
Same with a car, a boat, a TV, pretty much anything I can think of.
Well good. Go down to your car dealership, buy a car, and then, once you've signed the papers, tell them man you changed your mind and really don't want it after all. Get back to me on that and prove to me that there are no penalties.
Seriously, I think you are a sick beep
Well, you do sound like a man who has never been had to live up to your word and who feels that everyone is entitled to change their mind whenever they want for any reason without penalty.
Apparently people who know you know that you have no honor and this is why you don't know about doing what you agree to do.
If you "last minute raped" someone i knew i would slit your throat and not feel the slightest remorse.
I imagine you would. You seem like a rather ignorant man ruled by primitive emotions rather than honor. You'd rather threaten some with violence when they disagree with you than consider their point of view.
I feel sorry for you and your sister and the people that know you.
Good day to you, sir.
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)? -
bing-57 — 16 years ago(July 27, 2009 03:25 PM)
just 2 seconds BEFORE you sign a contract, tell them you changed your mind and see what they can legally do
Sure. BEFORE you sign the contract. But once you do sign the contract, there is always a penalty for backing out.
So, if the woman backs out before ordering the lobster, fine no penalty.
Or, in the case of the movie, if she says she decided not to go alone with him to a deserted place in the woods, then fine. All bets are off.
I think we are arguing over the line that you cross where penalties are applied. You seem to think that people are allowed to take advantage of the other party until it comes time to pay the bill and then suddenly back out.
On the other hand, I say that when you start accepting goods and services, you've agreed to the contract.
Think about that the next time you go to a restaurant. They seat you and feed you whatever you want. At the end, they present you with a bill. I hope you know that it is way too late to back out of your implied agreement to pay.
Whatever buddy, you sound like a man who would penalize a girl with rape if she dared to say no to you.
You either can't read or can't understand. I said that if she goes through with the date and I pay for everything, I would expect a little something in return. If she fails to pay up in sexual favors, the least she could do is pay for her half of the entertainment in cash. I have never said that she should be forced into sex.
Or do you not support equality and think that men should always pay for everything and then beg for a little affection at the end and be darn thankful if they get anything?
Sorry buddy, but I do believe in equality and that neither party should get a free ride.
And yes, I also think it's honorable to defend my family from anyone who thinks they have a right to forcibly make them do something they don't want to do.
Ah. You believe that murder is honorable but that rape is not. I see. Go on.
I will never end up in prison for raping a woman. You on the other handwell????
Heh, heh. You don't realize just how far off you are. Seriously, you are like billions of miles away.
On the other hand, your anger issues will land you in jail long before I ever get there.
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)? -
eyesky — 16 years ago(July 31, 2009 02:56 AM)
Jessie signed no "contract" - that's your perception of the situation (which, applause most rapists would have in common with you, no doubt) and Carlos', toonot the law's.
She was naive to be in the position she was, but acted in self-defence (whether she had to kill him or not isquestionable I suppose, as many scenes throughout the film suggested, but it's clearly a case of SD) - if Carlos wasn't twisted and without ill-intent, I don't think he'd have chased her down in an effort to frighten and provoke her the way he did - it wasn't playful, it was terrifying for her, she was crying and screaming. Did he think she'd just lie down for him and take it? Ugh. Not that his is particularly relevant to the murder (as she discovered it afterwards), but Carlos calculatedly placed the heroin in Jessie's bag, too, intending to leave her and Roy in the hands of corrupt and violent law enforcement (had they not escaped, they'd have been killed for not being able to submit the stolen money to them/for having supposedly murdered the dealers the film opened with)says quite a lot about what he would have done with her had she not armed herself with the wood. -
bing-57 — 16 years ago(July 31, 2009 10:20 AM)
Jessie signed no "contract" - that's your perception of the situation (which, applause most rapists would have in common with you, no doubt) and Carlos', toonot the law's.
So, can I take it that you support "dine and dash" food service?
At the restaurants I go to, they seat you and serve you food without any kind of contract. You are expected to pay at the end of your meal. I guess you don't follow the same rules and rush out of the restaurant shouting, "Suckers! You got no contract on me!"
You seem to be a person that only follows through with a deal if the other person has a signed contract and holds your feet to the fire.
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)? -
eyesky — 16 years ago(July 31, 2009 10:18 PM)
I won't legitimise your smug and entirely irrelevant "restaurant" analogy by continuing - it's surely beyond your capacity to offer me anything else (you addressed only a single line of mine!), so you're no longer worth any of my time. I look forward to receiving a snarky response from you that I'll promptly ignore!
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bing-57 — 16 years ago(August 01, 2009 09:29 AM)
I won't legitimise your smug and entirely irrelevant "restaurant" analogy by continuing
Yup. I figured you'd have no way to reply to that.
I look forward to receiving a snarky response from you that I'll promptly ignore!
Here ya go then. Feel free to ignore it and be as ignorant as you want to be. It's a free country.
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?