Triangle: An Objective And Thorough Analysis (Spoilers)
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voyagerandsouthpark — 9 years ago(July 12, 2016 01:13 AM)
theres a deleted scene of greg hearing jess 2 when she leaves through the door after jess 1 and greg 1 find the bloody message on the mirror, its a different video than the other 2 deleted scenes and is named deleted scene #2
"sir, sir, i gotta check and see if you've soiled yourself, I'll get to you in a moment, sir!" -
Spielburger — 9 years ago(July 12, 2016 05:16 AM)
Interesting - thanks.
Is this on DVD or Blu-ray? And which country/Region is it on?
I've currently got
three
copies of this movie, which is pretty extreme even for me, but I'd probably consider another one if it's got something interesting and I can get hold of it fairly cheaply
"So I've got bullets, but no gun. That's quite Zen." -
warrior-poet — 9 years ago(July 12, 2016 12:59 PM)
Kind of sounds like the missing deleted scene 2 on your disc was an oops that's since been corrected? Didn't you have one that had a 1 and a 3 but oddly no 2? Maybe what he's describing is the missing 2.
I'm something new entirely. With my own set of rules. I'm Dexter. Boo.
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Spielburger — 9 years ago(July 12, 2016 03:11 PM)
Kind of sounds like the missing deleted scene 2 on your disc was an oops that's since been corrected? Didn't you have one that had a 1 and a 3 but oddly no 2? Maybe what he's describing is the missing 2.
Yeah; that's what I'm thinking. That's why in an earlier post I asked voyagerandsouthpark
when
he got his copy: I got mine as soon as it came out.
Another possibility is that it's on the Blu-ray: I've only got DVD copies
"So I've got bullets, but no gun. That's quite Zen." -
voyagerandsouthpark — 9 years ago(July 13, 2016 08:30 AM)
i got the dvd recently, not years ago, and i found the missing deleted scene because i used dvd shrink to watch the movie and any extras on it, its only a short video and doesn't add anything to the movie. I was just pointing out there are 3 deleted scenes, #1 and #3 are in 1 video and #2 is in another.
"sir, sir, i gotta check and see if you've soiled yourself, I'll get to you in a moment, sir!" -
warrior-poet — 9 years ago(July 11, 2016 01:54 PM)
Ah, okay, I get it now. The scene they shot where it follows her after she runs off. Looks like Spielburger's answered that sufficiently already, but unfortunately I don't think that footage has ever been included with anything. It's just something Smith refers to in the commentary.
I'm something new entirely. With my own set of rules. I'm Dexter. Boo.
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Vicky8675309 — 9 years ago(December 30, 2016 02:45 PM)
I'm very impressed with your series of posts on the movie Triangle. I just finished watching it last night and found it to be an excellent movie. Luckily I was unspoiled about the movie and didn't have high expectations.
I thought I understood most of your (and others) explanations but I'm still not putting it all together correctly:( Why aren't a bunch of Jesses all converging outside Jess0 or Prime Jess's house (they all go back to the pastto a point in time before Prime Jess leaves the house). At one point I thought I understood everything but then it all gets scrambled in my head.
Also I've read about Tommy being dropped off at school or going on the boat. But the more I think about it the more I think Prime Jess accidentally killed Tommy. That is the only way I an understand later versions of Jess killing Prime Jess and being so concerned about Tommy. She has to save Tommy from herself. Not from a slap but from death. I wonder if she accidentally caused his death from her abuse (manslaughter or something like that). If she wanted to save Tommy from going on the boat, she only had to prevent him from leaving the house (slash the car tires and cut the phone lines). However she kills Prime Jess (maybe Jess, all versions of her, are quick to kill) and the main logical explanation for me (at this point in time) is to save Tommy.
Also I have a question about the Jess we see dead on the road after the car accident. Jess put dead Prime Jess into a black bag (luggage) that was zipped up and put into the car trunk. How does a car crash cause the bag to unzip and lead to Prime Jess being sprawled out dead? We see Prime Jess's body (not half in/out of a bad) on the road next to her son's body.
I really enjoyed this movie and have spent a lot of time thinking about it (and your helpful and impressive postsThank you) -
warrior-poet — 9 years ago(January 18, 2017 08:37 PM)
Thanks for the feedback and kind words! I'll touch on your questions briefly. Keep in mind that the movie itself doesn't necessarily have clear answers on some of these and other questions that have popped up over the years, but logically we can puzzle out probable answers. It's definitely a superb movie and in some ways acts as a Rorschach test for all viewers who see what they want to see and who can take from it what they choose, applying through a filter of their own worldview and preconceptions, biases, etc. as they see fit (well for that matter all art can be described as that, but this movie was tailored with that aspect in mind).
Why aren't a bunch of Jesses all converging outside Jess0 or Prime Jess's house (they all go back to the pastto a point in time before Prime Jess leaves the house).
The simple answer is because everything resets, and then she loops out again. The only logical conclusion about how the loop structure is occurring is that each time Jess loops to the past it replaces her previous loop to the past, erasing it. This might happen because shes appearing at the exact same time in the exact same manner each time in a sequential manner, and then reenters the loop again. The only way the her presence wouldnt be erased is if theres a skip in the loop where Jess escapes or otherwise leaves the loop, allowing it to start over with Jess Prime (in a physical or amalgamated interpretation) driving to the harbor again (which technically speaking MUST happen in order for the loop to exist at all, something I go into great detail about in my lengthy post). For example, if Jess were to hitch a ride out of town instead of go back to the house that version of her would live on in linear time, resulting in 3 versions of Jess for a period of time (i.e. the one at the house, a.k.a. Jess Prime, looping Jess, and the escapee Jess). But it would only happen if she didnt create a paradox by killing Jess Prime, take Tommy, wreck the car, etc. and enter the loop again.
But the more I think about it the more I think Prime Jess accidentally killed Tommy. That is the only way I an understand later versions of Jess killing Prime Jess and being so concerned about Tommy. However she kills Prime Jess (maybe Jess, all versions of her, are quick to kill) and the main logical explanation for me (at this point in time) is to save Tommy
Others have posited this because in their minds it more substantially supports Jess extreme actions, but I dont agree with this conclusion. The story itself doesnt support it. Keep in mind even the first time Jess enters the loop she encounters another version of herself killing people, including trying to kill her, and then she dons the mask herself and becomes a killer because it seems to be the only way to escape the loop (something shes wrong about, but that results in her extreme actions). She then goes back home (at the time not realizing shes in the past, or at least not fully accepting it yet) to yet again see another version of herself, a version she knows used to abuse her son out of frustration with years of having to deal with his cloying condition and behavior. Shes been desensitized to killing other versions at that point, which is why she commits that seemingly extreme action. But in her mind its another version of herself that has no value as a living person, similar to a character in a game who dies and gets replaced by another life. The circumstance itself is more than enough reason for her to engage in an action that from an outside observer would appear extreme, but to her seems necessary.
How does a car crash cause the bag to unzip and lead to Prime Jess being sprawled out dead?
Simple answer: it just does. The movie shows it somehow happens, therefore it happened. Perhaps the zipper had a weak spot and it ripped open. It was quite a violent crash, after all. I find it plausible.
Hope that helped!
I'm something new entirely. With my own set of rules. I'm Dexter. Boo.
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dolores_medina — 11 years ago(August 01, 2014 04:38 PM)
I Just finished your analysis of the travail of Jess through the time displacement.
I realize that if we see the 3 dimensional spacetime as depicted by a 2 dimensional band. then her travels from the past on the left to the future on the right can be seen as a Moebius strip.
There is a twist as well as a loop so that when Jess 71, returns to the harbor, she is now Jess 74. Jess 71 was "confused" jess. jess 74 according to my understanding becomes "Mean" jess.
If I am correct she will both Give a severe beatdown to Jess 72, and receive one from Jess 76 before being tossed over the side of the ship dead or near dead to drown and die.
My Question. We know that when she is Jess 71, she interacts with Jess 69, 70, 72 and 73, before falling off the ship to become 74.
Is there any significant difference between jess 71 and Jess 69? My understanding is, that the moment that Jess 71 puts On the mask, she becomes Jess 69, and gets tossed over the side of the boat by herself.
That means that she takes turns being " Confused" and " mean" The confused is One iteration through the strip.then the " mean" is on the other side of the Moebius strip.
Or is there a difference between Jess 71, and Jess 69? Is Jess 71 really becoming Jess 67? -
warrior-poet — 11 years ago(August 04, 2014 08:50 PM)
You've got a strong grasp of it. The main thing to keep in mind is that during the span of the loop cycle we observe (even if just snippets) the pattern is very, very similar between loops, but in an alternating pattern. Theoretically, early loops could have held greater variation, although probably not by very much. But in the end, there is little difference between Jess 71 and 69, for example, both of whom are in "nice" patterns. Very minor variations could occur. We even see a couple in the film.
For example, when our" Jess hides (meaning the one we follow through the film, and who undergoes a "nice" pattern) in the kitchen and grabs a knife she then hides behind a counter for a while and the masked Jess peers in while shes still in there. However, two loops later when the next confused/nice Jess does the same thing (and when our Jess is now the masked one) she rattles the knives when taking one, which spooks her and she immediately runs off, so when our/masked Jess peers into the kitchen its empty this time.
It's reasonable to assume that other minor deviations have occurred up through the 70's section of the loop, and that further deviations might occur beyond that point. What we know for sure, however, is that since the last loop must feed back into the first loop, that whatever those deviations are they must result in what we see during the loops we observe.
Something to note is that we don't know the exact loops we see. I've estimated loops 69 through 74 based on an approximation of the number of objects in each of the piles, but it's an estimate. A close one, but it's not exact. For purposes of discussion though I think it's fine to refer to them using the labels are provided to help maintain consistency.
At any rate, you're absolutely right. She alternates between "nice" and "mean". The Jess iteration we follow in the film is "nice", but when we see her about to embark on the yacht again at the end of the film she'll be in a "mean" loop. It should also be noted that there are a lot of similarities even between "nice" and "mean" loop patterns. The further the "mean" loop goes along the more it deviates, but it starts the same and is identical for at least a good half of it.
Another item to note is that in my structure I'm having Jess transition from one Jess number to the next the moment she wakes up on the beach, i.e. is thrown into the past and loops backwards. However, this is really just a technical detail. The structure and labels could be shift to any point in the loop while maintaining the same general pattern. Meaning, at that point it's just a label to help visual and quantify things for purposes of discussion.
I'm something new entirely. With my own set of rules. I'm Dexter. Boo.
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warrior-poet — 9 years ago(July 06, 2016 09:11 PM)
Back to Part XI:
http://www.imdb.com/rg/e/bt/board/11187064/board/thread/223982092?d=223982359#223982359
Pivotal Excerpts From Interviews With Chris Smith
Internet Shortcut Links for the entire interviews these snippets are extracted from can be viewed in my SkyDrive Triangle folder at
http://sdrv.ms/MoXetr
in the Internet Links subfolder, and the entire interviews have been compiled in the Triangle - Chris Smith Interviews document. In addition, video and audio interviews with Chris Smith can be found in the Interviews subfolder.
http://www.imdb.com/board/11187064/trivia
The film is set in Miami, Florida, but was filmed entirely in Queensland. Both Florida and Queensland are known as "The Sunshine State"; a nickname used on a road sign in the film.
The film makes many oblique references to The Shining. The number 237 crops up, which was the same number of the spooky hotel room Danny was forbidden to go into; there are also words written on a mirror, a ballroom and an axe.
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/movietime/triangle/3105202
An empty ocean liner is the eerie centrepiece of this psychological thriller about a young single mother caught in a parallel reality nightmare. A British-Australian co-production (the first to receive Screen Australia's new Producer Offset), it was shot in Queensland with an Australian cast, but it's actually set off the coast of Miami, presumably the Bermuda Triangle.
http://www.film-news.co.uk/show-review.asp?H=Christopher-Smith&nItemID=74
I had been trying for a long while to actually make this film. I started to write the script and gave it to my agent to read and probably only got as far as loop 2 when I went mental. I said to my agent Am I insane here, or this gonna be alright for a film, or am I going crazy? and he said, You should look at The Rhyme Of The Ancient Mariner and read it. So I tried for a long while to add elements of that and have a wedding sequence. Then theres the aspect of the Bermuda Triangle. We were playing with the idea of having Jess (the main character) getting off the boat and attending her sons wedding, because the myth of the Bermuda Triangle is that you disappear and come back years later. I very nearly had her come back thirty years later to attend his wedding, while thirty years ago she had left him to run off with a handsome man and never came back to pick him up from school. So it almost worked.
I had the original idea, which was what would it be like if the person looking over the bow of a ship is you, and youre looking at yourself as you arrive on the ship. Then from that I built the whole story with a group of characters, the central one was a mother, but is she a good mum or a bad mum? Is her child autistic, or is it in his mind or her mind because she has a sort of Munchausens syndrome by proxy? There were all these mad ideas I had, but then there was the idea of what happens if there isnt really a beginning and an end and we keep her trapped in this kind of circle.
So what is that circle? Is it some sort of purgatory because shes a bad mum? Is it guilt, because if youve done something wrong you cant escape from it and cant escape from yourself? Or is it just a kind of ghost ship movie? Or a psychosis movie? There were all these layers, and I wanted to have all of them. Even when we shot the movie, we had three endings. They were all at the same point, post-car crash, so it was does she have amnesia there or the other alternative is that she proactively goes back into the circle. So the question then is why would she choose to go back into it all again?
There are moments when I throw verbal questions at the audience, for example when the other characters in the film say that she (Jess) is crazy. I think in the armory sequence where she starts to write the notes you begin to think shes lost her mind because shes talking to herself. I think the movie reeks of her whole breakdown; there are always lots of shots with multiple mirrors where shes seeing herself. Of course, the film is also about her guilt of being a bad mother or simply just being a bad person. You can never escape your own guilt. All those evil things on the ship happen because of her, but she cant remember why. Although in the end, it becomes obvious why. She realizes that she isnt the mother she thought she was and thats the morality aspect of it.
I like the title and the echoes of the Bermuda Triangle. Originally it was an idea and for some people the idea is naff, for others its kind of cool. But yes, its deliberately misleading but at the same time sells the mythology to those who want it. So yeah, I felt for those who wanted it to be that, its fine. For those who dont want it to be that, its about a triangle, like three sides to a character. It still works as an enigmatic title, I think.
http://www.moviemuser.co.uk/Features/3099/INTERVIEW-Christopher-Smith-Talks-Triangle.aspx
There was a mo -
bonsai-superstar — 11 years ago(March 16, 2015 09:25 PM)
Dear Johnny Freetime: It wasn't that elaborate - or good - of a movie. It was vague (or poorly written) enough that you're reading a lot into it that wasn't there. Also, no-one wants to read lengthy essays about an ultimately forgettable movie.
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cuem — 10 years ago(September 11, 2015 02:50 PM)
This is by far the most epic post series I've seen on IMDB, hell, even one of the most epic posts I've ever seen on Internet.
You've apparently put a lot of hard work and tons of time into this. I've saved it offline for future reference. Hats off to you sir! -