Her whole situation seems flawed.
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ccebrussell — 9 years ago(November 17, 2016 04:49 PM)
It's easy to judge when you aren't the one in the scenario. We often forget that people are complex, EVERYONE has the capacity for crime. We just want to live our lives, and often that does mean stepping on others to get on top.
Put yourself in Lee's place. You've lost everything, your family is dead, you have no job, battling an addiction, the whole world is against you, and you are utterly alone. Would you confess? I find it hard to believe that you'd make rational decisions in such a situation. No one wants to go to jail! In any court case, most will profess their innocents, guilty or not. Most people lack the ability to own up to their choices. I also find it funny that you say you lost sympathy, sympathy is just feeling sorry for someone, not understanding them.
As a counselor, we learn how to empathize, and put ourselves in in the mindset of someone like Lee. Empathy is important when understanding why someone does what they do. People want to hold on to their lives, right or wrong. We all have the internal need to survive and maintain our status quo.
Also, if you had been kidnapped by a bunch of redneck cannibals. I'm pretty sure you'd want to kill them too, self preservation drives people to do extreme acts. Again, how would YOU feel if some people were cutting body parts off of you? I'm pretty beep sure you would not sit idle. You'd do be just as quick to bash in that old hags head in, it's your life vs theirs!
I understand why she killed her husband, I don't agree with it. However, she did it in order to hold onto the last sliver of her life. Again, how would you feel, your ex husband who abused you, has prevented you from seeing your only child at every turn. Mason was no saint either. He was using their child as a way to hurt Lee in the only way he could. He threaten to take sole custody, meaning she would never be able to see her kid again.
She killed him as a reactionary impulse, she snapped, much like people do in real life. Just as she lied and denied her crimes. She's reacting as most normal humans would, she was doing what she thought was best. It's easy to lose sight of the consequence of ones actions, no one just does something with out really thinking of how others will feel.
Lee is a human being, and humans are flawed, selfish, and act out of fear of loss. Learn some empathy! -
sjzaz-34243 — 9 years ago(November 17, 2016 08:15 PM)
Good grief. I am a nurse and I have plenty of empathy for people in real life. THIS IS A TV SHOW we are talking about and none of it was reallol. As a counselor you must realize that even though you can understand why a criminal would commit whatever actsit still doesn't make them above the law. When you kill someone, unless it's an accident of self-defense, you either go to jail, or you are put into an institution until you are able to understand why you killed, or you stay in the institution indefinitely. What kind of a world would we live in if people could go around killing other people just because they had some rotten things happen to them? Oh, sorryyou got addicted to pain killers, lost your job, and your husband left you and is going to take your kid because you're an unfit motherOk, I guess we understand why you killed him. Be on your way then. NO! That would not happen in real life, and if you are really a counselor you would know that.
I will tell you a little story about myself. I actually DID have an ex-husband who was abusive and crazy. And I lived through something similar to what Lee had to go through, only it was my ex who had the substance abuse issues not me (and obviously there were no ghosts or redneck cannibals) but I was stalked by his second wife, harassed by both my ex and his wife, and at one point they took my son and left the state with him and I wasn't able to see my him for FIVE YEARS because they kept moving and they evaded me and they evaded the law. It took me years to untangle all of that mess through the courts and get my son back. We had to get private investigators and everything. After all they put me and my son through, my dad ended up having a stroke and nearly died because of the stress of watching his daughter and grandson be hounded and threatened. I lived through years of hell because of my ex. But I didn't kill him! But if I had, do you think anyone would have had such sympathy for me that it would have kept me out of jail? I hardly think so! -
ccebrussell — 9 years ago(November 17, 2016 03:15 PM)
Lee was never the hero. She was a damaged person trying the best she could (in her own mind) to raise her child. She'd already lost one daughter already, was in an abusive relationship, divorcing the abusive ex husband, dealing with losing her job, and a drug addiction. Her world had been smashed into pieces before the events of the story.
The only thing she has keeping her from going off the brink was her daughter. Flora was her emotional crutch. Is that healthy? No. However, people in her situation are pushed past the point where they can cope in healthy ways. Lee lacked the tools to know how to deal with all of these emotions.
I work with addicts, and I can tell you that when people are in a mental crisis, they do not know how to healthily process. They do irrational things because they aren't living in the moment. Fear and anxiety take control and warp their reality.
She killed her ex husband in a fit of cold blind rage; because she was about to lose the one person that was keeping her sane.
Also, when you add to the fact that Lee had to endure two blood moons, being cut up for food. Having people harass her and invade her personal life, and other trumas. It's not a far stretch to say that she snapped.
Lee was already probably aware at the end of the season, that there never was any going back. Her daughter hated her, and as soon as she left the house, she'd be arrested for kidnapping.
Lee had no time to try and reason with an emotionally scared child, who at this point wanted to die. They had an entire squad of cops, ghosts, and the Butchers mob on the way. This not not a normal situation, and it's hard enough to reason with children, let alone a child that had seen so much death.
Lee knew Her life would never be normal again, even if the charges were dropped. Death was Lee's only option. There was no way to atone for all the murders. Lee knew that her ghost would be the only one strong enough to keep the Butcher at bay. She even says that she is just like the Butcher. Lee will have to spend her afterlife watching over Priscilla, and the other lost souls. -
Steal-No-Evol — 9 years ago(November 17, 2016 09:30 PM)
Someone probably already said this but..
If she really loved Flora, she would leave her alone and allow her live a somewhat normal life.
Even her sacrifice at the end didn't make sense. She barely addressed the idea that her eleven year old wants to commit suicide to be with her imaginary friend and decides to let herself be killed, making a child (Flora) responsible for her own mother's death.
That's a total contradiction in your own thinking or at least a grasp of comprehension.
If she really loved Flora, she would leave her alone and allow her to be killed by a ghost child. That's what you're saying.
Her sacrifice at the end, preventing the eleven year old from committing suicide to be with her ghost friend, and freeing her eleven year old from the obligation she was feeling to a ghost, was a pretty selfless thing to do.
But if you want to call out bad writing, just call it out.
Her character really loved her daughter. -
porkchop4 — 9 years ago(November 18, 2016 12:28 PM)
To me it came off as a cover your own butt situation for Lee. If she let Flora kill herself, she'd be branded the worst mother in history who drove her kid to suicide, or depending on how Flora would have killed herself, like if she jumped down the stairwell onto the snapped pieces of wood or jumped out the large window, Lee might have been charged with murder. Lee already showed what kind of self preservation she has by telling her lawyer to discredit her own daughter on the witness stand, and then try to talk to her like nothing bad had happened between them after she just saved her own butt at the sake of her daughter.
So by offering to take Flora's place, she comes off as sacrificing herself for the greater good of her kid, rather than a multiple murderer who stepped on her own kid in order to get out of a murder she admitted to doing. -
mtarek7 — 9 years ago(November 18, 2016 10:13 PM)
very much agree making Lee the hero made the show even worse than it was. When they announced only 1 would survive, I knew it would be Lee. The writers are juvinile, they want to demonstrate their liberalism by having a Black woman as the hero only they gave it to a deplorable character. A shallow character. Exactly, why not explore why her daughter is suicidal instead of some lame brain idea of dying herself? It is like she is mentally off and very annoying. And that ridicuous wig they put on her, wrdrobe and make-up couldnt do any better? I feel they were mocking Black women in essence with all this nonsense. Yet they probably think themselves clever and are so self satisifed with their "progressive" choice.
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danloki — 9 years ago(November 18, 2016 10:25 PM)
The writers are juvinile, they want to demonstrate their liberalism by having a Black woman as the hero
Wut? What does the colour of her skin have to do with the price of fish in china? Casual racism at best, you cranky Trump supporter. -
mtarek7 — 9 years ago(November 18, 2016 10:45 PM)
If I was a Trump supporter why would I be cranky , he won moron? You should have guessed Killary if you are so dumb you thought my post was against and not in defense of Black people, because Killary orchastrated massacres against Black Libyans and migrant workers and she blocked Black Haiti from receiving aid , stole the money in fact, and peoole underwent amputations sans analgesia. But your pathetic binary, racist mind finds Killary the c unt as your champion, the butcher of Libya, Syria, Yemen , Ukraine, Haiti etc. At least Trump is not a mass murderer, isn't that the real reason why you don't like him? No killing credentials? Pathetic liberal imperialist trash. You are so caught up in the spectacle and trying to look righteous by going against Trump while defending a mass murderer criminal who belongs on a noose at the Hauge. Hint: this does not default me to a Trump supporter, you silly robot.
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danloki — 9 years ago(November 18, 2016 10:50 PM)
If I was a trump supporter why would I be cranky , he won moron? You should hsve guesses Killary if you are so dumb you thought my post was agsinst and not in defense of Black people , becUse Killary orchastrated massacres against Black Libyans and migrant workers and she blocked Black Haiiti from receiving aid , stole the money in fact and peoole were amoutated sans analgesia . But your pathetic binary , racist mind finds Killary the c unt as your champion , the butcher of Libya, Syria, Yemen , Ukraine, Haiti etc. At least trump is not a mass murderer, isn't that the real reason why you don't like him ? No killing credentials . Pathetic liberal imperialist trash , now F off
I cant read that. Please translate into English.
No I wont F off. This is a public discussion board. Dont you Yanks keep carrying on about freedom of speech? You cannot shut me down with your hate, kid. -
morphine333 — 9 years ago(November 18, 2016 10:25 PM)
I agree and disagree.
I wish they would have fleshed out Lee's relationship with Mason a bit more because if we go by face value, he was right to divorce Lee and take Flora (even though I would have preferred he stood by her and they went to counseling or something similar), but I feel like there were a lot of things they could have touched on and didn't.
Maybe it will come up in a later season, but why did they bring up her missing daughter only once? It seems like that alone would be a good reason for her to be, as you put it, obsessed, with Flora. I feel like they should have touched upon that more.
I was happy she was acquitted of killing those three kids because that was all blood mood/witch stuff but I don't get why if she ate the heart and was under the witch's spell or whatever, she didn't just die that night then and there and become the new Butcher.
I dunno. I don't exactly like her being the hero of the season either, but it's more to do with her motives not being explained correctly imo.