Why not stay in the apartment?
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — End of Watch
awagstaff-402-522357 — 12 years ago(May 07, 2013 09:24 AM)
I thought they would have had a hell of a lot better chance of survival if they had stayed in that apartment rather than making a run for it. They knew backup was on the way. Why not try and fortify yourself and wait it out? As soon as the gang heard the sirens coming they woulda been out of there. I also wondered why they didn't grab the assault weapon from the guy they shot in the hallway.
Having said that, I know adrenaline would have been pumping at an all time high and decisions had to be made fast.
All in all, I thought it was a pretty decent movie. The Mexican gang was really believable, especially the girl that drove the car. -
Movieloverrrr — 12 years ago(May 10, 2013 06:04 PM)
I'd say they were doomed to be killed. Just remeber how long the backup took to get there. By leaving the house, they thought they could catch the gang by surprise or something, but had they stayed there, they would have been killed right in the moment.
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Spartan_10 — 12 years ago(May 12, 2013 01:51 AM)
Not really. They were covered from an elevated position, and outgunned. The smart move would have been to stay in the apartment, where the were only two points of entry, fortify those positions, set up intersecting fields of fire, conserve ammo and wait for their backup. They left their only known point of hard cover/concealment and exposed themselves needlessly to defending themselves in a hostible, urban environment.
They should have stayed there. -
kure_madman — 12 years ago(June 13, 2013 12:26 PM)
A wall in a crappy apartment building isn't cover. The 7.62x39mm round will penetrate right through it. If they stay there, they die. At least if they get out, the gang members won't know right where they are.
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Zero1020 — 12 years ago(May 13, 2013 04:50 PM)
Fortify with what? Tables and chairs? Anyone trained in urban warfare knows that if you are outgunned you have two options, escape the area quickly or go on the offensive. And they didn't pick up the assault rifle because they had no extra ammo, didn't want to lower their weapons to switch, weren't trained to use it or wanted to use a weapon they are extremely familiar with.
Many of the scenes of mexican gang members were actual gang members not actors. -
Spartan_10 — 12 years ago(May 14, 2013 06:07 PM)
I've trained in Urban Warfare, your point? There are certainly many other options than the two you've presented, including.seeking cover and waiting for support.
Yes, fortify with tables, or chairs, or the couch, anything. Make it difficult for the enemy to overrun your position. A table or chair or couch set up as a barrier to entry is essentially no different than concertina wire or sandbags in an OP in Afghanistan. When they were in the apartment, they weren't engaging in an urban conflict, they were at a very good position of cover, and could certainly have strong pointed that apartment for 5-10 minutes until the rest of the LAPD showed up.
Your reasons for not picking the AK are ridiculous. Ammo in a gunfight is ammo. You don't NOT pick up an offensive weapon (AK-47) just because it might run out of ammo in the future. A pistol is a self defense weapon, and the two cops were HILARIOUSLY outgunned by the gangbangers. You don't willingly engage in a gunfight against two or three AK-47's with only a pistol. If I'd run by that AK, I'd have picked it up. Holstering your sidearm and picking up that rifle would have taken all of 2 seconds. It's a long gun, it's got a stock, a rear sight and a front sight with a trigger. Any idiot with any minute amount of firearms training could get an AK-47 to operate. Gyllenhaal's character was a Marine. If you can operate the M16 platform, you can get an AK platform weapon to work. -
Roby78 — 12 years ago(May 19, 2013 06:13 AM)
I saw this film yesterday and as soon as the two cops made the dash out the appartment and shot the guy hiding in the hallway it was obvious one of them should have picked up his AK.
As you say, the Taylor character was meant to be a trained Marine so they would've increased their chances hugely if he picked it up.
The scene at the start in the locker-room showed what they carried on duty and from memory it was a Glock and two extra clips each. As you say, they were hilariously outgunned and outmanned for that fire-fight. -
paul-2219 — 12 years ago(May 19, 2013 10:33 AM)
I couldn't believe they ran out of that apartment. They told the audience they each carried 3 spare clips that's likely about 90 rounds between them. They should have just piled furniture in front of them, hunkered down, conserved ammo, and waited them out.
Element of surprise was gone. It was unlikely they'd have explosives, and everyone knew that much automatic fire would have the cops there in minutes. The gangsters knew it too.
Es gibt sauerkraut in meine lederhosen. -
MultiSanity — 12 years ago(August 15, 2013 04:59 PM)
I'm not even the slightest bit trained in firearm use, with that said I obviously know what the stronger weapon is and it's not some pistol.
It seemed inexcusable for even one of them to pass it over but I take that as Hollywood raising the stakes so speak and plating into the usual gun fight stereotypes. -
estocade — 12 years ago(August 30, 2013 10:55 AM)
That is precisely why you are wrong!
A trained cop with a pistol needs only one shot to end your life. Unlike a pistol AK47 is only effective at close range, and semi-effective at medium. As you saw in the movie the cops survived a true bullet rain thanks to that fact. -
shutic84 — 12 years ago(November 16, 2013 08:45 PM)
An AK-47 is only effective at close range and semi-effective at medium range? What have you been smoking. Though the 7.62x39 isn't the most accurate of rounds, it still has an effective range of 300-400m while the most pistols have an effective range of 50m.
I've been on the receiving end of an AK-47 and can attest that it is not a short range weapon aside from my knowledge of firearms.
At that close of a range we are talking the design of the projectile and muzzle velocity (all an effect on how a round acts when hitting its target). Glock has 1,230 feet per second v. the AK-47's 2,350 feet per second. At any rate, despite the facts that the bullets should have penetrated Pena's body and killed jake, it is just a matter of Hollywood fiction. -
chaosbaron — 12 years ago(February 12, 2014 01:04 AM)
If you are a soldier then you know about training with your assigned weapon. They knew and trusted their weapons, they had ammo for their weapons. To pick up another persons weapons to get off the remaining 20 shots in a mag that they may not even know how to use could be dangerous. Other than that, I would have probably made the call to stay in the apartment and wait for back up.
On the note of him being a marine and being able to work the AK, maybe he didn't trust it. Putting away the weapon you are good at to pick up a weapon you are even a little less skilled at can be defeat. Not to mention his hand was seriously beep up, firing an assault rifle like the AK wouldn't be terribly easy. -
WhenGreyjoysCry — 12 years ago(July 17, 2013 11:09 PM)
That isn't true. Escape if you can, but only in rare instances would you engage an enemy with more personnel and superior firepower. Two reasons bunkering up may have worked
1: The gang bangers view was occluded. they couldn't see the officers exactly where the officers were and were shooting blind. Even better, go to the back of the apartment pulling the gangbangers through the door in single file. Then would be a good time to engage. Kill the first guy through the door and likely break the will of the ones following him
2: AK rounds are big and slow moving (as far as bullets go). They don't have nearly the penetrative power of other assault rifles.
In reality, I really do think the best tactical move would be to move to the back of the apartment and take defensive positions with a view of the front door, but this is a movie and a little artistic license is in order. Movie isn't the same without the dramatic ending and can't have that if Taylor and Zavala turtle until the reinforcements get there..
There are no ordinary moments. There is always something going on. Peaceful Warrior -
face_jammer — 11 years ago(April 12, 2014 06:14 AM)
AK rounds are big and slow and have less penetration? LOL I love these CoD kiddies talking like they're ballistic experts. The AK round could penetrate through those apartments like a hot knife through a butter stick. LMAO CoD kids.
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WhenGreyjoysCry — 12 years ago(May 28, 2013 09:31 AM)
I thought the same thing. Take a defensive position inside the apartment and burn down the first banger that comes through the door instilling fear into anyone else thinking about doing it. Those Mexicans didn't have the tactical training to know how to root out bunkered defenders.
There are no ordinary moments. There is always something going on. Peaceful Warrior -
thedude_85 — 12 years ago(May 31, 2013 01:58 AM)
Since they'd left the apartment, I agree that they should have picked up the AK (not Liberace's):). Also, when they shot the first gang member in his car after leaving the apartment, they should've taken the car and driven away. The main gang members were on foot and the other gang car may not have seen them or might not have been able to catch up.