Was this an anti-love film?
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Liberal Arts
xlangamesfl — 13 years ago(February 06, 2013 01:45 PM)
Sothis movie to me kind of setup how even between the age difference 2 people can truly fall in love. He is 35 and she is 19. She has an "old soul" so to speak and the only time he becomes alive in this film is when she is a part of his life.
I thought what they had was very sweet and genuine. I wasn't grossed out or anything, and because they were so compatible I felt the movie would be about them being together.
The way it all fell apart was so forced and ridiculous. Olson went from being the character she was to instantly acting like a child. I don't buy it. They had already shown us too much of her and how awesome she was to start having her act like a 16 year old brat. Then he went from great to being a jerk with the entire Twilight thing. Geeze dude relax. The girl is already awesome in a million ways, you need to freak out THAT much of a book you don't agree with?
So then there is the virginity thing and he decides he won't be with her and it's all over. Not even a heavy makeout session.
The reasonings for their love falling apart were silly to me. Then he right away just happens to find a perfect person for him and she goes completely out of character and proceeds to have a drunk hookup.
I just didn't get the message here. It was as if their genuine and very sweet feelings weren't going to fly in today's society. Where 19 year old girls know nothing and are meant to have drunk hookups and 35 year old men who are alone are meant to be weird and miserable and immature if they do anything against the norm.
I know a few couples with 15+ years between them and this movie was just not very good IMO. Love is love. All their letters back and forth and sharing of interests and long walks and all thatwell that's a great thing. I have no problem with the movie breaking them up and it not being a perfect happy ending, I just wish it would have been deeper than it was. Basically the reason was society says a 35 year old shouldn't take a 19 years old's virginity or date her so..the end. -
LindsayElisabeth — 13 years ago(February 08, 2013 01:32 AM)
Thank god I wasn't alone in my thinking. I agree completely with all you just said. I didn't find their relationship odd at all. What I did find odd was how the whole virginity thing played out. I think it was just thrown in there to try and support the whole theory that she was just too young for them to be together.
I feel they fit each other so perfectly and it pissed me off that he didn't even give the relationship a chance. Plus he led poor Elizabeth on and broke her heart causing her to throw herself at that Eric guy. So stupid! -
xlangamesfl — 13 years ago(February 08, 2013 03:47 AM)
I know right?! Some would argue her throwing herself onto Eric was proof of her immaturity but I don't see it that way at all. A lot of people I know do some really stupid things in response to breakups and heartaches even at 30+ years old.
The way they were so great for each other.well it seemed to me she was saving herself for something special this entire time and I think it was him and what they had. That's how I interpreted it anyway. He doesn't see it that way at all thanks to the writer/directer and turns her down big time. It's no wonder she was heart broken.
Then I felt the movie cheapened itself when he just happen to fall for the oh so perfect fellow book loving cute girl that was available to him from the start. No offense to her because she seemed awesome, it just felt so forced. Like the writer knew after ALL that we would demand he end up with someone so here she is, the backup plan!
Take into account the retiring professor and his oddity and unfulfilled story and then the randomness of the kid with mental issues and what you have is a bit of a mess of a movie. The more I think about it the less I like it haha. -
shelemm — 12 years ago(April 27, 2013 04:40 AM)
The film gives all sorts of clues about his reticence before that moment. Everything we already know about him indicates he could have problems moving forward. He even has trouble sitting next to her on her bed!!!!
His final problem was not just 'thrown in there.' -
Spellbinder888 — 13 years ago(February 26, 2013 10:54 AM)
It made sense when she explained it. She said:
"I guess I thought you were a shortcut" when she said she wanted to catch up with her 'older self'. In doing so, she admitted that she couldn't just be someone she was not and had to grow up naturally.
Age Is just a number. But at the same time there are reasons why some people feel older and more mature. Life experiences change people and this film recognised that. I think that was pretty obvious during the film. -
mrocco-1 — 12 years ago(June 15, 2013 01:33 AM)
Well said Spellbinder888
Plus, I don't think someone 19, or even 30 for that matter, can grasp the immense aging that happens between 50 and 60. She would be 39 when he was 55. I know that doesn't sound like much on paper, but if your over 50 you may agree with me (or maybe not). I know there are always exceptions to the rules as I'm sure many relationships/marriages have survived a 20 year age gap.
He says that when you get older sex is more complicated. What I took from that is that when you're older sex means more than sex, and if you don't think something has a chance to last beyond some fun in bed you you don't want to go there. It was clear he was looking for something meaningful by ending up in what appeared to be a serious relationship with someone age appropriate.
Getting old is NOT for sissy's. -
shelemm — 12 years ago(June 21, 2013 07:29 PM)
He says that sex is complicated.. not "as you get older." He is making the point that she doesn't realize her feelings will grow once they have sex. It will bring her an emotional and psychological intimacy she has never experienced before, and he doesn't want to hurt her later because he won't feel the same. He can't bring himself to take advantage of her.
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fentress — 12 years ago(December 26, 2013 04:58 PM)
Just saw the movie last night, and I'm agreement with Spellbinder. I think in general it is certainly possible that a good relationship could exist between two people with a 15 year age difference. But for some individuals it could legitimately be an obstacle. I interpret the movie as simply being about one of those cases. The movie is not saying that it will never work for anyone when there's that much of an age difference.
Remember the scene where Jesse was writing what both their ages would have been at different times in their lives? He was reassured that the gap would sound like less of a big deal the older they get. And there's some wisdom in that. It's not so much the gap that matters as when it occurs. It's rather unpredictable what kind of person Zibby might evolve into in the coming years. Granted we all change as times passes, at any age. But because Zibby is so young, she's at the prime age where she could change a lot. She might be a very different person a few years down the road. In contrast, Jesse will change too but probably not nearly as much.
The part about Jesse's reaction to the vampire book was perhaps a bit overdone. But on the other hand I thought it was rather refreshing to see a character in a movie who feels so strongly about quality literature. -
shoppah — 12 years ago(September 17, 2013 08:45 AM)
I, too, was disappointed that the two lead characters did not consummate their relationship. If he also had genuine romantic feelings towards her, which he was portrayed as having, then I think he should have made love to her and been her first. If he didn't want to hurt her perhaps he could have discussed what he saw as the implications with her before consenting. He could have discussed with her that them having sex may intensify her feelings towards him and if the age gap proved too big of an obstacle that both or either of them could be hurt. He could have discussed that its important that she doesn't develop an old guy fetish if it didn't work out with them and that she become more open to guys in her own age group, that they too will eventually mature.
I think the two of them giving love a try when they had touched one another on such a deep level was not a bad thing even with the age difference. As most of us can attest to, finding soul touching love is not that common. As opposed to retreating and hurting her by rejecting her, I feel it would have been better to risk hurting her by loving her while being as honest as he knew how to be and to continue to respectfully share his wisdom in these matters with her as she formed her own opinions and her had own experiences.
I understand why the OP asked if this is a anti-love film. Having her opt to loose her virginity in a drunken stupor motivated by hurt and self-doubt is so less loving and noble than with an older man she shared genuine affection with.
Although, I liked this film, I didn't like the cowardly negative twist it took in him obsessing over her vampire light reading or copping out on their relationship just because of the vast age difference. After all she was at the age of consent and an appropriate age to be sexually active and he himself was still a young-ish adult. Nonetheless, although I agree that such an age difference is a serious hurdle for many of the reasons others have expressed, its not an insurmountable hurdle if love is strong and the souls connect and continue to grow in a compatible direction.
So yeah, I was really disappointed with the mealy-mouthed turn of the story line in an otherwise touching film. -
shelemm — 12 years ago(September 24, 2013 10:30 AM)
There is a really important theme introduced early in the movie about learning how to say no. It is introduced in the scene at the diner where Zibby talks about her improv class and says that "in improv, you have to say yes to everything and then add something." The rest of the movie has Zibby or others prompting Jesse always to say yes (this happens multiple times), even when he really wants to say no. Sometimes you have to muster a lot of courage to say no. He was always holding back because he knew he felt uncomfortable - and it wasn't just purely an age difference, but how that difference really played out.
Of course, everyone watching this movie (including me) really wants to see them get together. Who wouldn't fall in love (at least a little) with Zibby? And when that love is denied, it is understandable to fell hurt, disappointed and even crushed. But the warning signs are there all along.
Also please remember his very serious live-in girlfriend just left him. No matter how lovable and wonderful Zibby is, I can easily imagine that a very different girl, on the rebound, can seem like a startling incrongruity.
I remember a point in my life when I should have said 'no' but didn't. -
kaiser100 — 12 years ago(January 14, 2014 11:19 PM)
Hmmmyou have made really good points. However, the film isn't saying the man is perfect or necessarily made the right decision. I also wasn't entirely comfortable with the way he rejected her, but it was a rational reaction for someone in his position so I accepted it. He also didn't know she was going to go off and do what she did. It is true, it was perhaps the pivotal development in the storyline, but it didn't kill the ending for me or make me think he was a jerk.
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fentress — 12 years ago(February 27, 2014 07:49 AM)
I, too, was disappointed that the two lead characters did not consummate their relationship.
I respectfully am of a different opinion. There's so much emphasis on sex nowadays. I think it's refreshing to see a movie where people have feelings yet don't have sex. It makes the feelings come across with that much more potency. And it was nice to see Jesse have enough conscience to feel that it wasn't fair to Zibby when he knew he had some uneasy feelings about her. I think it wasn't just a matter of treating her delicately because she was young, but he might have done the same if he doubted his feelings for any reason.
Of course, inconsistently he did have a one-night stand with the Allison Janney character. I have to admit that development didn't do much for me. -
sahandc3-1 — 12 years ago(December 10, 2013 10:28 PM)
I completely agree. Up until the last 30 minutes the film felt like a cute and delightful romance movie. And then the filmmakers decided they wanted to make it into some kind of metadrama about age and maturity?
What the filmmakers don't know is that you can't have your cake and eat it too. The tonal shift and subsequent change in narrative and everything ruined it for me. They couldn't keep a consistent tone and as a result, I just felt manipulated.
I understand and respect what they were trying to do, but I don't think it worked. Those last 30 minutes felt random and out of place in every way possible. -
texasgal1976 — 11 years ago(November 12, 2014 12:54 PM)
Why does love always have to be consummated in film? And I use the word love loosely here because why I believe he cared for Zibby, he showed just as much concern for Dean. I recently saw Begin Again which also featured two leads with an age difference albeit not as obvious. I think it's perfectly okay to feature a love story and base it just on the connection itself and nothing else.