Can we finally get a remake that actually follows the graphic novel?
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AnthonySocksss — 10 months ago(May 19, 2025 03:53 PM)
It was okay as a comedy, but the whole thing was too ridiculous to take seriously at all. For me, good performances and direction cannot compensate for a silly script.
A history of being overrated.
Melton1 Wanted for Pedophilia:
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preachcaleb — 10 months ago(May 19, 2025 07:59 PM)
Gotta disagree with that as well. There were some good moments of levity, to be sure, but the tone was firmly a psychological thriller. A very effective one at that.
Those performances delivered on a great script. The way it starts off with the red herring of the two killers at the beginning before going into a fairly good mystery as to Tom's true past before hitting audiences with that gut punch/mood whiplash when we learn Tom's true nature and right up to that somber ending was fantastic storytelling.
This was a great beginning to Viggo and Cronenberg's working relationship. It's perfectly rated as is.
So many stories, so little time. -
AnthonySocksss — 10 months ago(May 19, 2025 09:48 PM)
It was not effective at all. There was little to no psychological thriller elements in this, it was just a dumb action movie.
The mystery of who tom was became irrelevant at the halfway mark. After that it stopped being interesting and just became a standard revenge movie involving the mafia. It was equivalent to a Steven seagal flick. The whole climax in the mansion is like a comedy, hard to take seriously, with Tom having the most ridiculous plot armour. Then it just ends without tying up any of the loose threads.
Definitely one of cronenberg’s weakest efforts,
Melton1 Wanted for Pedophilia:
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AnthonySocksss — 10 months ago(May 19, 2025 10:10 PM)
It’s neither ambiguous nor a real ending, the movie just randomly decided to stop without any sense of closure, open ended or not. Like the writer turned in a half-finished script and the producer said YEA LET’S ROLL WITH IT. Ultimately it’s a long winded shaggy dog story. The final scene is more like “wait that’s it? Who cares” lol
You only get the privilege of using the “ambiguous ending” if you actually have a real story to tell to begin with. This was not it, and undeserving of any such praise. There was nothing to think about other than how dumb the last part was. It’s like a joke with no punchline.
Waste of 2 hours
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preachcaleb — 10 months ago(May 19, 2025 10:20 PM)
Gotta disagree there as well. It was extremely effective. The camera shots and cinematography perfectly capture the look of a thriller. Peter Suschitzky has an impressive list of thrillers he's worked on, and it shows in this film as well.
That's mid-story plot twist. Tom really was the horrible human being he was being accused of. It's fantastic the way it's framed, and Tom's coldness when he admits to who he was leaves no room for doubt. Audiences have to re-evaluate everything they thought they knew about Tom and where the story was headed. Excellently staged and executed.
I can't quite see it as a Seagal flick, but it definitely leans much more into action towards the end. Nothing wrong with that. Tom's plot armor is no worse than any other main character in most movies we follow.
As for the ending, it's great. It's not meant to tie up loose threads because life doesn't always tie up loose threads. The ending is a somber, sobering look at how someone's past can impact their present, no matter how much they've tried to outrun it. We are left to wonder what will become of this family now that all the skeletons are out of the closet. Heck, that's as far away from some Seagal flick as anything else.
Easily one of Cronenberg's finest, and it led to bit of a resurgence for him and a move away from the body horror he'd been doing for several decades at that point. That trilogy of movies with him and Viggo (A History of Violence, Easter Promises, and A Dangerous Method) is a great streak.
So many stories, so little time. -
AnthonySocksss — 10 months ago(May 19, 2025 10:29 PM)
I give you a lot of credit for trying, but this movie is beyond salvaging.
- The movie may 'look' like a thriller but it lacks any sense of suspense or intrigue. Tom is an invincible Gary Stu. He is also bland and boring. Viggo tried, but the character is a cardboard cutout cliche from a comic book (oh wait…)
- The 'twist' ending up being entirely predictable and disappointing, so hardly a twist. If Tom wasn't the guy then apparently he's just some navy seal CQC expert, so it was obvious he was the guy. A case of mistaken identity would've been more interesting, but the movie just veered into typical action flick by the second half. There was really nothing to reevaluate. He's just a superhero character, and you certainly never get any interesting info that he's a "horrible human being". I would have liked to have seen that movie, but it wasn't present here.
- The steven Seagal aspect comes from the entirely childish and ridiculous action climax. Tom runs around killing everyone thanks to the utter stupidity and ineptitude of the most useless and cartoonish "villains" I've seen in a movie. Worse than the guys from On Deadly Ground.
- The ending did not even establish any threads to tie up. The movie doesn't say anything about the character's past or how the family will deal with it because they barely even address it. It's just an unfinished storyline disguised as "somber ambiguity". It also leaves open plot holes that are never addressed, which is another reason it fails. Captain America kills the bad guys and goes back to his family, what exactly is the conflict here? That he lied to his family about his past? There are a million better movies with this scenario. By the end I do not care what melodrama the bitchy wife and discount-Michael Cera kid endure after this, if they get divorced or not, because they were never interesting or multidimensional to begin with. The whole setup is flawed to begin with. Tom even knows that the mafia has found him, logically he'd be putting his family in witness protection or SOMETHING, instead of hanging around town with a dumb grin on his face claiming "he's not joey".
- Cronenberg's pivot from body horror to dumb, B-grade action movies was certainly different, but not very successful, and thankfully short-lived.
Melton1 Wanted for Pedophilia:
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https://m.youtube.com/shorts/Zjxk307CND0
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AnthonySocksss — 10 months ago(May 19, 2025 10:48 PM)
I never once saw "loving family" other than generic one from a Hallmark card. The characters were mostly just annoying. The sex scene on the stairs creepy and offputting.
The ending is a big plothole. They're just going to ignore that the rest of the mafia will be coming after them? Why is law enforcement not involved. Why is Tom not under investigation by authorities? Why was he not in witness protection to begin with? Even the part about his family being in danger is never addressed. So the wife never asked about Tom's family or thought it was weird no one showed up to their wedding, lol? Ambiguity is not a substitute for plot holes. No one in this movie behaves like a normal, realistic human being so why should anyone even care what happens?
Ultimately the movie wants you to believe that Tom is such a superhero character that they will continue to live on their farm and he will singlehandedly stop anyone who comes their way.
The movie just wastes its potential and doesn't even begin to follow up on an interesting premise. Think about it for more than 5 minutes and the whole thing collapses in on itself. An entertaining movie, sure, but a mighty silly one.
Melton1 Wanted for Pedophilia:
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preachcaleb — 10 months ago(May 19, 2025 10:58 PM)
The movie needs no salvaging. It's wonderful as is.
- I disagree. There's great suspense. It opens with an incredibly suspenseful scene with the two killers at the motel and showcases the theme of violence right from the beginning. Then it ramps it up when we see them in Tom's diner. We know exactly what these characters are capable of. It's very suspenseful waiting to see what happens to Tom's customers.
I also don't see Tom as an invincible Gary Stu. He's constantly getting injured and spends several scenes in the hospital recuperating. That's not invincible. And while he may be bland and boring, that is literally the persona he's trying to create to remain in hiding. Big points to the movie for nailing it. - The twist wasn't that he was a former mobster, but rather how he so blatantly and coldly owned up to it telling Fogarty he should've killed him. Tom wasn't found out. He fessed up. As far as the audience is concerned. A case of mistaken identity could've worked, but the movie is about a history of violence. We lose that with a mistaken identity. The story is about not being able to escape your past. And I disagree we never get anything interesting. We see how good he is at killing people and how cold he is with violence.
- I disagree here too. The violence is not cartoonish at all. It's quite visceral and brutal.
- We actually did see the movie address Tom's past. He has various arguments with his son and horrific confrontation with his wife that bordered on assault on both their parts. I disagree it's unfinished because that's saying that a past like this could be neatly wrapped up in just a couple of hours. I see no plot holes.
But there is quite a bit of conflict. How does a family move forward and heal when the father had been lying to them about who he is their entire time together? Can Edie ever reconnect with Tom or will she always just see Joey? How does a son reconcile his father's violent history with the lessons that violence is not an answer? Great stuff to ponder over as the family sits to a meal lacking the warmth and love established earlier in the movie. - It was actually quite successful. All three movies turned over a profit. With a History of Violence nearly doubling its budget. Short-lived, yes. But successful nonetheless. Though I'm not sure how A Dangerous Method would constitute an action movie. Or even Eastern Promises.
So many stories, so little time.
- I disagree. There's great suspense. It opens with an incredibly suspenseful scene with the two killers at the motel and showcases the theme of violence right from the beginning. Then it ramps it up when we see them in Tom's diner. We know exactly what these characters are capable of. It's very suspenseful waiting to see what happens to Tom's customers.
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AnthonySocksss — 10 months ago(May 20, 2025 12:58 AM)
I admire your tenacity but resistance is futile
- Yes, the opening and part with the diner are all fairly good, despite how obviously villainous the hoods are. But the movie also misses out on adding some depth here, I mean the bad guys are just so binarily evil people that murder little girls for fun that we're cheering along with Tom when he murderbones them. The fact Tom only ever goes after bad guys just makes the whole thing a bit one-note.
And Tom is maybe mildly injured with a stab wound, but other than that he's basically unstoppable and kills everyone in the room barehanded. Not a ton of investment there when he can get out of anything so easily. And yeah, his Tom persona is boring, but then we find out the real Joey is also just as dull. Idk i just saw a lot of missed opportunity. - To me, the 'twist' was disappointing, because after that it just goes into predictable action movie territory and wastes Ed Harris who is a more interesting antagonist than William Hurt's Tony Soprano parody. The twist could've been more impactful if we find out Tom was this horrible human being, like you said, but he's just revealed to be more of the same; a reluctant libertarian hero who takes out street scum. I just felt there were no stakes with the apparent twist.
- The actual blood and guts are well done, but it's the choreography of the fights, especially the ending. The bad guys literally just stand around and watch Joey beat the other henchman to a pulp before slowly drawing their guns like 90 year olds and being easily gunned down like stormtroopers. So again the issue comes down to there being no stakes if the baddies are just portrayed as incompetent buffoons.
- There were some very brief and vague arguments, but they never really delve into much beyond that. It never explains why the wife never considered asking about his past, how they even met, why Tom wasn't in witness protection to begin with, and why he wasn't being investigated by law enforcement (kind of a big deal in the graphic novel). Too many variables the script is afraid to explore. So they are plot holes. Ultimately, the family is just shocked to find out their loving husband/father is from Philadelphia. LOL big deal! The movie is building to this big fallout with is family, but ultimately his reasons for his past are entirely understandable and there's not much reason for them to hate him for it (unless you count the plot hole of him being an asshole and putting them all in danger once he gets found out – should they maybe go to the FBI or check into a hotel? Nah, let's have ROUGH STAIRCASE SEX instead and let our son go out doing whatever the **** to be picked up by goons).
The questions the movie poses are all a bit shallow and undeserving of lofty ideation. The movie treats violence as this terrible thing on one hand, and then a hilarious joke on the other. The tone of it is all over the place, so it's hard to take those moral considerations seriously, especially when the main character is never shown to actually grapple with it. Also violence seems to solve all their problems, so where is the drama? That just leave him lying about his past to his wife, but again, it's a plot hole. - I wouldn't call the movie mega-successful, it did just okay at the box office and got a couple award nominations, but nothing major. It's certainly nowhere near as transgressive or interesting as Cronenberg's earlier work. But at this point Cronenberg was trying for a mainstream hit and this is what it feels like. It's all a bit rote.
Melton1 Wanted for Pedophilia:
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https://m.youtube.com/shorts/Zjxk307CND0
- Yes, the opening and part with the diner are all fairly good, despite how obviously villainous the hoods are. But the movie also misses out on adding some depth here, I mean the bad guys are just so binarily evil people that murder little girls for fun that we're cheering along with Tom when he murderbones them. The fact Tom only ever goes after bad guys just makes the whole thing a bit one-note.
