Fraud director. Put a dozen actors together and let them improvise
-
SimplemindedSociety — 14 years ago(October 25, 2011 01:33 AM)
Because some people say that his misfires were the result of viewersperhaps not 'sophisticated' enough not getting him(or the film),when in reality the viewers were too busy falling asleep.
I have no idea about the personality-stuff you brought up; I never accused of him of that. -
franzkabuki — 14 years ago(October 25, 2011 02:34 AM)
"Not sophisticated enough".
Well take it up with those "some people", then - Ive never implied any such thing & Ive never considered Altman particularly "artsy", anyway (with a few exceptions such as 3 Women or the failed experiment Quintet). Mostly, hes pretty fun.
"The viewers were too busy falling asleep".
Their loss. Most people are just unwilling to venture much outside of their comfort zone or reshape their ideas of what cinema oops, movies can be or do. You seem to be insisting that any different kinds of films should not exist at all - why else are you so offended that youve seen fit to complain about him for several months, on several threads.
"I never accused him of that".
"Give the editors the credit then". "If the films a hit, hell take credit". Your words from OP. Clearly implying Altman was a selfish as-hole who was wilfully robbing his actors & crew of their rightful accolades.
"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan -
claudja777 — 13 years ago(October 19, 2012 03:30 PM)
u are entitled to your own opion, but what's the point to go to his forum where obviously poeple like his craft?i know in forum that's what happens, BUT you should at least articulate in order to recieve a real answer and starts a debate.
-
SimplemindedSociety — 13 years ago(October 19, 2012 03:40 PM)
Fair enough.
Yes, it's a board for Altman, and of course many people don't value what I say, however it's not a fan board.
If Altman is that superior, then why such a ratio of FLOPS to successes? For example,if you were a filmmaker staring out, and made those flops first, you would likely never have a career.
Even Robert Ebert had a saying about a certain filmmaker(not Altman)that "the Emperor has no clothes"
Why must it be either 'great' or 'poor' on every imdb board? -
claudja777 — 13 years ago(October 19, 2012 04:37 PM)
ok, good point ,I'll try to answer
why could he afford making all those movies if they all bombed? I'll answer with how he answers from the book "altman on altman"
he practically says that 1)the success of mash (78 million in 69,costed 3)helped him have some kind of "trusthworthness" which of course is not enough,other reasons are-he listed them-alan ladd jr at fox really liked his work ,and greenlit all his work in the 79's;(he got fired after some clashes regarding his work)2- pauline kael was a HUGE fan who made enthusiastic reviews of all his movies until buffalo bill,and she was like,a very important voice back then 3- big name actors accepted to work for him for little (as happens with allen, for example)
on a more personal side, i don't love all his movies, but for me ,tecnichally speaking, he is the best director ever.I'm talking the way he shot, simple yet recognizible.very lean,very moving,precise.i love it.some shots he made are so artistic yet so fitting.like on mash,when they come back from the golf trip and exit the elicopter.DAMN!anyway.
to make an example, im a huge billy wilder films fan (don t like all his movies too,btw, if u ask me the only directors who never failed are hitchcock-and im not even fan,but still, and lubitsch)but i dont consider is direction recognizable,impressive and or catchy.
id say altman best movies are the same that national film institute recognize as that.mc cabe, mash and nashville. -
SimplemindedSociety — 13 years ago(October 19, 2012 04:56 PM)
But those films are isolated to the 70's period.
and why the huge cast in her almost every film? It's almost like the concept of throwing some many people/things on the screen, and having some of them stick. -
claudja777 — 13 years ago(October 20, 2012 01:47 AM)
those films are from the 70.i think the huge cast concept stuck around after nashville.but he doesnt use huge cast like always.dr t,mc cabe, quintet, a perfect couple, popeye, mccloud, stiggs and oc , california split, long goodbye 3 woman and mash don t have big cast.
-
franzkabuki — 13 years ago(October 22, 2012 02:40 AM)
Altmans "ratio of flops to successes" is completely acceptable; hes actually much more consistent than often given credence for, with only 4 movies out of 23 Ive seen being bad. Even his relatively less-than-accomplished works, like Brewster McCloud or Kansas City, are at least interesting and adventurous, one of the few true original visionaries as he was. And btw, he DID start out with the rather poor That Cold Day In The Park.
"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan -
SimplemindedSociety — 13 years ago(October 22, 2012 02:46 AM)
'That Cold Day In The Park' is not considered poor from what I have read. Actually, his best regarded work is from the mid 70's. Maybe that is before he became too self-absorbed.
Weigh it for yourself. -
franzkabuki — 13 years ago(October 22, 2012 03:23 AM)
That Cold Day In The Park is too little seen to have much of any reputation to speak of, but FWIW, its Rotten Tomatoes freshness rating is 20%. In other words, awful. And Im quite sure Altman was at all times just about equally "self absorbed" (theres little sign of any compromise in any of his films), but youre right inasmuch as he seems to have taken himself a bit too seriously as this auteurist artist around the time he made the Bergman-styled abomination called Quintet, for instance. If anything, he was arguably less self absorbed though in the Eighties, his weakest period, because he didnt have the necessary budgets to satisfy all his flights of fancy.
"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan -
SimplemindedSociety — 13 years ago(October 22, 2012 10:47 AM)
'That Cold Day In The Park is too little seen to have much of any reputation to speak of, but FWIW, its Rotten Tomatoes'
Look through some of the film review books before Rotten Tomatotes and the internet was our source of info