The Infamous Chat Room Thread
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streetlegal — 15 years ago(December 23, 2010 01:32 PM)
My opinion is that Dylan has had 'different' voices at various stages of his career and just about everyone has a different opinion about it. In the past 25 years his voice has changed but I don't hear a general decline, some years he sounds stronger than others. It could be that his lifestyle has an impact on his voice and I have no idea what he was or wasn't doing in the mid 80's but I don't think drugs have had a major long-term impact on his vocals. Dylan wrote in Chronicles that he became disillusioned towards the end of the 80s and felt disconnected from his music so any vocal problems at that time were probably down to lack of inspiration than anything else. He certainly has seemed in excellent shape in recent years, it would be impossible for a man in his late 60's to play so many shows year after year if he wasn't looking after himself.
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barclay-james1 — 15 years ago(December 23, 2010 01:50 PM)
I agree that his recent shows have been really strong, i love how he plays 'Senor' now, but im referng more to the timber of his voice, the 'croak' that has emerged since the mid 80s.
Im not saying im 100% correct on the cause, its just a theory i had, but if you listen to live shows from 1986 through to 1988 there is a horseness that develops that seems beyond what you might expect from natural aging.
The differece between his voice between 1988 and 1992 is perhaps even more prominent.
I knoe againg is a factor, but his voice actually sounded damaged at the start of 1988, and as we know, he hadnt toured the way he has since then, so i dont think it was ware and tare. -
barclay-james1 — 15 years ago(December 25, 2010 07:01 PM)
Although there were clear cut cases of him 'putting on' voices, like he did on Nashville Skyline, hid debut album, and parts of Self Portrait.
But those changes are nothing like what im talking about.
Maybe you have to have heard his 86,87,88 concerts to hear what i mean. -
Boogie_Knight — 15 years ago(December 26, 2010 03:18 AM)
Who says the mid eighties were the cocaine years? I have always read that the 80s were the booze years. The cocaine years, which also included possibly smoking speed, were the mid sixties and mid seventies.
Dylan's life during the mid eighties is very well documented. Is there a SINGLE person who reports seeing him smoke crack? Any actual evidence of this at all?
I honestly can tell no difference in his voice from INFIDELS to OH MERCY that a decade of age couldn't explain Any changes in vocals in live shows could be due to exhaustion or simple lack of effort. I saw him twice in that periodonce with Petty and the Heartbreakers and he was very bad, clearly drunk and once in 89 and he was great.
The real change in his voice seems to come after his mid nineties heart infection.
If people have been giving you a hard time about this, maybe2000 it is because you are making a serious accusation without any evidence at all, with nothing but sheer speculation. -
barclay-james1 — 15 years ago(December 26, 2010 03:48 PM)
You may need to do a little more reading if your not convinced dylan was using drugs in the mid 80s.(try 'Performing Artist : The Middle Years)
Also, there was the infamous bbc interview 'Getting To Dylan' in which dylan leaves the room on several occasions, only to return, sniffling, and seeming much more animated than before he left.
On top of this, he toured with pettys band, who were at the time doing cocaine on tour.
If you havent heard that dylan was using cocaine in the 80s its perhaps not my error, it may be just you need to look deeper into the info thats out there.
Im a huge dylan fan, but i also know the nature of drug use, and believe me, dylan is not exempt from the rules of re-usage, espacially on tour.
I work as a tour manager with bands here in the UK, and without naming names, i can assure the drug is widely used.
Sonically, dylan vocals changed radically in 1988, if you dont hear the difference say from 'Silvio' on the 'Down in the groove' records, to the first travelling wilburys album, then i dont suppose your going to understand my point on the voice change.
As you get older, your vocals actually drop a few octaves, and when you get much older, your voice can seem to weaken, johnny cash is a good example.
But the sound of dylans voice change in the mid 80s seems almost 'scorched', its a sound ive heard in other singers who smoke crack. (it burns the throat)
Im not saying you need to believe me, but i think its worth considering, if only to the point that you do your own research and see what you can find out.
As for the drinking, that seems to have hit a peak in 1991 through to early 1993.
Drug users often turn to alcohol when they give up drugs, particuarly uppers like speed and coke.
I think what upset people when i first posted this thread many years ago was that they saw it as somehow below dylan, a very strange reaction considering a)the music industry is full of this drug, and b) that dylan is documented to have taken drugs in the past.
Please dont think im trying to bad mouth dylan whatsoever, thats not the case. -
streetlegal — 15 years ago(January 05, 2011 02:28 PM)
Yes, he showed a huge lack of respect when he abandoned the acoustic guitar and started playing with a band-if only he had listened to the fans he could have been bigger than Peter Paul and Mary.
He's shown the same lack of respect through the years, wasting his time w111criting and recording new songs that don't even sound like the stuff he was doing in 1963.
I think it's about time Mr Dylan reunited with Joan Baez for a solo acoustic tour and perhaps he could also issue a public apology for the way he has treated his long-suffering fans over the years.
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Red_Barn — 15 years ago(January 05, 2011 03:32 PM)
I suppose I can just about understand how someone might miss the point that on a thread about BD being a horrific drug abuser that this:
"His abuse of drugs is legendary, and his lack of respect to his fans huge. When I saw him he was pathetically bad"
might fail to be interpreted with it's intended meaning that he was a mumbling, tuneless monstrosity when I saw him live; that he delivered a slap to the face of all the fans who had paid to see him. Perhaps the person who replied to me had been smoking crack too, who knows! -
VerbalKint2424 — 15 years ago(January 07, 2011 06:37 PM)
I dare you to post this on the ExpectingRain.com board.
Actually, I'd imagine you'll get a genuine response there, some of those guys could pinpoint Dylan on any given day in his life, well not quite, but you get the picture, it's a good board. -
streetlegal — 15 years ago(January 09, 2011 11:20 AM)
The reason for my sarcasm was because of the "his abuse of drugs is legendary" Legendary doesn't equate to factual-Robin Hood is a legendary figure. I've heard lots of people referred to as legendary drug abusers but in many instances the legend is simply a myth. Dylan may or not have been a heavy user of crack cocaine and that may or may not have had an impact on his voice.
Dylan is a unique artist in so many ways, two people attending the same gig could leave with wildly different opinions.
Saying he shows a lack of respect to his fans is another opinion as opposed to fact, there's very good argument to be made that Dylan shows more respect to his fans than most performers because he doesn't pretend that everyone is the audience is his best friend, he shows up, plays his music and then moves on. Dylan's ticket prices are always reasonable, if he wanted to he could cut back his touring schedule and go on the road every few years playing a greatest hits set with ridiculously expensive ticket prices. I'd say that would be showing disrespect to the fans. -
peddlerwhospoke — 15 years ago(January 12, 2011 08:56 AM)
This shouldn't 2000even be discussedwe should just listen to the music.
However, if we must, the changes to his voices are intentionalif you don't believe me listen to the following links.
This is an unused take of Tell Ol' Bill. This is 2005towards the end of the take he sounds like he did in 1975, albeit a little older
http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/3/11/2790731//11 Tell o Bill Take 11.mp3
This is from 1997a Time Out of Mind Outtake.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/3/11/2790731//08 - Cant Wait (Alternate Version Time Out Of Mind).mp3 -
Red_Barn — 15 years ago(January 12, 2011 01:14 PM)
"This shouldn't even be discussed"
What utter nonsense. If people want to discuss things they will, whatever you think about it. Limit yourself if you must, others may choose to not follow your bad suggestion. -
peddlerwhospoke — 15 years ago(January 13, 2011 09:37 PM)
I don't know man. You can take my advice literally or the way I intended. Don't dwell on the inner workings of something, unless you want to drive yourself mad. Sure, I think aboutdoesn't anyone else notice this voice? If any respected person cared he wouldn't be playing sold out shows a$$wipe.
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streetlegal — 15 years ago(January 14, 2011 11:51 AM)
You're right peddler. Dylan's voice has sounded different at various stages of his career and he can sound very different even on recordings made around the same time. I suppose another example would be the two Rolling Thunder tours of 1975 and 1976, he uses two very different voices.
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peddlerwhospoke — 15 years ago(January 15, 2011 09:10 PM)
Yes. By 1976 he created such a growl in his voice that is heard again in the Oh Mercy period. However, around Street Legal, Budokan, and then Slow Train Cominghe reached high into his register to perform some of the best singing he has ever done.
He evolves to what is required of the material. Sometimes he changes the material to fit what is required of the time. -
MrBook_ — 14 years ago(July 12, 2011 07:00 PM)
LOL, you went on the Bob Dylan board and said Bob Dylan is a crackhead? Gee, what went wrong? "Hey, what's wrong, why is everybody so mad?"
I can't believe in this whole thread nobody said the obvious answer to Bob's voice change: Smoking cigarettes. Doi.
Get on up. -
MrBook_ — 14 years ago(July 16, 2011 08:23 AM)
I think a lot of it may be a put-on, too. You hear him in interviews the last few years, like the 60 Minutes interview, and his speaking voice sounds like he's always sounded, with no more change than you would expect from age. Assuming he is putting on a voice for affect, it wouldn't be the first time. In fact, you could say his voice has always been a put-on or an affectation, with constant changes being made to it, sometimes subtle and sometimes drastic.
Get on up. -
tgrdavid — 14 years ago(July 19, 2011 07:00 AM)
I am surprised no one here has attributed his voice to chain smoking cigarettes I don't know if he quit or cut back but he did chain smoke throughout the entire 60's and 70's. Seriously is there a video of him not smoking from that time period? My guess is that he exaggerates his voice as well. I think he want's to sound Like Louis Armstrong singing what a wonderful world! I have to admit though the raspy voice does sound good in some of his songs. I think he sounds much better now than he did in the late 80's through the 90's.