A lip synching asshat.
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masterofallgoons — 15 years ago(November 13, 2010 08:21 AM)
Closer? No. But the same. And therefore I had the same view you did. Why is it fair for you to determine that he was lip synching and not fair for me to determine that he wasn't?
Why must I admit that? Do you think it would be that hard to recreate those lines from Waiting for the Worms? That would be the easiest thing to do from the whole album.
Why are you making claims like this? I saw the Dark Side of the Moon tour also, and there was no reason to claim that the band wasn't playing. That doesn't make any sense at all. Why would he pay these world class professional musicians, who have a history and reputation of exhibiting their talent, to not play? You're just taking shots in the dark here if all you can do is accuse for no reason. -
glacier1982 — 15 years ago(November 14, 2010 03:23 AM)
"I saw the Dark Side of the Moon tour also, and there was no reason to claim that the band wasn't playing."
What I meant was, "he was singing over a prerecording of himself", not that the band wasn't playing. I should have been clearer. It's the truth, and it shows Waters' steady decline in his singing ability.
"Why is it fair for you to determine that he was lip synching and not fair for me to determine that he wasn't?"
As I said right off the bat, I was on the floor. Since maybe 5% of the attendees were on the floor, with 95% in the stands, just assumed I was in a better position to see the trickery.
As I stated before, some was lip synched, some was not. The parts with the megaphone were most definitely dubbed. One unamplified hand-held megaphone cannot be heard in the middle of a rock concert, and there was no mic anywhere near him while he performed those pieces. Watch the Wall Live in Berlin and you'll clearly see how Roger performed those pieces live.
Even though we saw the show in different cities, I can GUARANTEE we saw the exact same show. I am not getting into a debate with anyone, merely trying to warn the masses.
Roger waters should have never done this tour. If you can't sing the songs, you shouldn't try. A 37 year old Waters knew better. -
masterofallgoons — 15 years ago(November 15, 2010 11:12 AM)
"What I meant was, "he was singing over a prerecording of himself", not that the band wasn't playing. I should have been clearer."
Ok, well that makes more sense, but I still don't buy it. On that tour he didn't even sound that good. I could clearly hear his voice wasn't up to par compared to the album on a lot of those songs. He tried to hide it with back up singers (that you were clearly singing along with him, ON STAGE and not prerecorded), but he also doesn't sing on the majority of that album so it wasn't a big deal.
If he was singing over a precording on that tour, then it was a complete waste. They didn't make him sound any better than a deteriating version of himself anyway, plus he didn't have much to do vocally. Again, in this case you are making claims with no real reason, and you have no better insight than I.
"As I said right off the bat, I was on the floor. Since maybe 5% of the attendees were on the floor, with 95% in the stands, just assumed I was in a better position to see the trickery."
That's perfectly reasonable, but the XL Center in Hartford is a fairly small arena. I was on the floor, but even when I was walking through the stands I could see everything clearly and closely.
"As I stated before, some was lip synched, some was not. The parts with the megaphone were most definitely dubbed. One unamplified hand-held megaphone cannot be heard in the middle of a rock concert, and there was no mic anywhere near him while he performed those pieces. Watch the Wall Live in Berlin and you'll clearly see how Roger performed those pieces live."
You can claim they were dubbed, but you have no proof to say that some was and some wasn't, or which parts "most definitely" were. You seem to be the only person I have talked to who has made such a claim.
I wasn't looking closely for it at the time, it's possible I'm mistaken, but I was pretty sure he was holding up a wireless mic to the megaphone. And even if he wasn't, you don't think that a show of this magnitude could attach a smaller wireless mic to a megaphone, or make a megaphone that connects wirelessly to the PA system? I mean, just thinking logically, it wouldn't make any sense to lip synch that part. His voice is distorted anyway, that song takes no real vocal ability, and using a megaphone with a mic has been done a million times. It would probably be more challenging to coordinate a prerecoring of that part than it would be to just perform it. That just makes no sense.
"Even though we saw the show in different cities, I can GUARANTEE we saw the exact same show."
I would agree with that. The precision of the stage production would have to be painstakingly rehearsed and extremely carefully choreographed, in terms of all the electronic and special effects aspects. If you are so possitive that you saw lip synching though, then we definitely had different experiences.
"I am not getting into a debate with anyone, merely trying to warn the masses."
Nor am I. I am just warning those who would take your warning seriously, not to. -
glacier1982 — 15 years ago(November 15, 2010 06:14 PM)
"Nor am I. I am just warning those who would take your warning seriously, not to. "
If I had more proof I'd use it. It if I had a million dollars, I'd wager it.
This is what I can offer you.
http://consequenceofsound.net/2010/05/05/an-open-letter-to-roger-waters/
And I'm dead serious; If I had one million dollars, I would bet it that Roger used a sizable amount of prerecorded material for the Wall tour. -
masterofallgoons — 15 years ago(November 16, 2010 08:36 AM)
Ok. Well I disagree. I suppose we will have to leave it at that. In my estimation this is the sort of thing that needs more than some random open letter by someone who heard from someone else that the last tour was lip synched, or a first person account saying nothing more than, "I just know it." But whatever, I think he sang, you think he didn't. I guess that's all there is to it.
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glacier1982 — 15 years ago(November 17, 2010 05:40 PM)
If we could do some mindmeld thing, if you could have seen what I saw, if I could hand you solid proof, I would. And honestly, for lack of proof, I'm sorry. I wish to high hell I had something more.
I'm not even trying to piss on anyone's parade, atleast, not anymore. I know what I know, and all I can do is attempt to inform. Roger Waters used a sizable ammount of prerecorded vocals.
But obviously your a fan of his work, as am I, and my hat is off to you. Be well. Maybe the dvd will shed some light onto the matter. -
masterofallgoons — 15 years ago(November 17, 2010 05:53 PM)
"Ok. Well I disagree. I suppose we will have to leave it at that . But whatever, I think he sang, you think he didn't. I guess that's all there is to it."
-From my previous post.
For the record, do you know if there is a DVD planned? -
crimson_cravate — 15 years ago(November 20, 2010 09:23 PM)
Waters does lip-sync to pre-recorded vocals. You want proof? Here's some:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K71c9Vbv3i4
No, this is not Waters having a bad night, this is what he is actually "singing" night after night. In this version of the song, the television station have accidentally mixed Waters' live (i.e. real) vocal too high in the mix. Ouch! You can faintly hear the recorded vocal in the background.
Here's another example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJc6lfBILog
Check the video out around 2:20. He forgets the words ("we heard about the sellout") and smiles to himself at the mistake. There are loads of these videos on YouTube. You'll also notice that on this particular video (and others from the same source), the audio is from a monitor feed, so you can clearly hear the click-track and spoken cues that keep the band and the pre-recorded stuff in-sync.
I have no doubt he's doing the same thing on the current Wall tour.
His bass playing is the real deal though! -
glacier1982 — 15 years ago(November 25, 2010 03:49 AM)
Watched those links and Oh. My. God.
Not that I'm surprised as I got a real good look at his "technique" last month. By technique, I mean he leans real close to the mic to cover the fact he's not singing.
A younger Roger would be ashamed. What the hell happened to my hero? I would rather see him retire than sell his soul tour after tour. For god's sake, he's a performer, not a puppet.
I want my money back. -
crimson_cravate — 15 years ago(November 29, 2010 06:29 AM)
I know. It's sad, isn't it. It's not like the backing tracks are just giving him a bit of support. They're blatantly disguising the fact that he CAN NOT SING the high songs anymore. Which is fine, we all get older. But if you're going to keep touring, Roger, do it honestly. Simple solution - let Jon Carin sing the high ones, and just concentrate on playing the MEANEST bass possible. We'll still love you.
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funkyfry — 15 years ago(December 14, 2010 11:21 PM)
For my two cents, I just didn't like your tone in the OP if it was you who posted but basically I couldn't disagree that he was using a lot of overdubbing in the show. We were on the floor as well around the 30th row in San Jose, just last week. I thought it was an incredible show overall actually, but yes you could tell that he was being supplemented in some of the tracks. He told us at this particular show at least that he was going to duet with a recording of himself from 1980 on "Mother" so at least it wasn't a total mystery what was going on. Roger was really into performing the role, just clawing at the wall and rolling himself up into a ball and all of that, so I was pretty blown away by everything he was doing for us. I did suspect that "The Trial" was entirely pre-recorded, and the fact that all the musicians came out very quickly afterward with acoustic instruments seems to confirm that.
I don't think that was so much a big "lie" as just part of the nature of this very theatrical show. They couldn't blow up the Wall while the musicians were there on the stage. I would be surprised if major parts of it weren't prerecorded on the 1980 tour. In fact I have heard prerecorded stuff on Pink Floyd bootlegs from the early 70s, like when they did the Atom Heart Mother Suite in London in 1970 the entire instrumental section was just a tape. Was that a cheat? I dunno, how quickly do you want to draw lines in the sand here?
Did I not love him, Cooch? MY OWN FLESH I DIDN'T LOVE BETTER!!! But he had to say 'Nooooooooo' -
ashfordcrane — 15 years ago(December 25, 2010 10:48 PM)
I don't know about all the lipsyncing, but just seeing what I've seen in recent performance videos, I definitely wouldn't pay a dime to see his shows now. What comes to mind immediately is a live version of "Comfortably Numb" in his newest tour. He's strumming an electric guitar (no bass) which apparently is silent since he spends half the time waving his hands in the air with no change in sound. Also during Gilmour's vocal parts, he just walks around away from the mic mouthing the words. No harmonies sung.
As far as his bass playing goes, the guy is a good songwriter, never a very strong bassist. I never gave it much thought, as I've loved everything he's played on. But recently I saw footage of "Young Lust" from an 80's show. I'm guessing there was a back-up band wearing masks of the real members. Where the other musicians apparently were just filling in the gaps, I was disappointed right after the line "Ooh, baby, set me free," with that groovy bass rundown in which Waters turned from the audience and was DEFINITELY not playing it. Then I recalled that Gilmour was credited as playing bass on the album as well. I can only assume Gilmour probably played the lick on the original recording and it was likely beyond Water's skill. No shame in that, but I think Waters should've ju2000st swallowed his pride and hung up the bass on that particular part of the performance.
In the land of the blind, 1-eyed man's king. In the land of 1-eyed men, 2-eyed man is FREAKING OUT! -
cvpidave — 14 years ago(April 10, 2011 02:52 PM)
"Then I recalled that Gilmour was credited as playing bass on the album as well. I can only assume Gilmour probably played the lick on the original recording and it was likely beyond Water's skill."
Yep. And on the studio version of "Hey You", that's David Gilmour playing a fretless bass.
"It's like you said. All I am is what I'm going after." - Vincent Hanna -
glacier1982 — 13 years ago(June 19, 2012 04:52 PM)
Just want to remind everyone that this never-ending tour The Wall is run by a giant fraud. Roger Waters has no dignity in my eyes anymore. The only way I'd ever see him again is if Floyd toured with him. Well, that and if I could meet him and tell him how disappointed I am in him.
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Chapaev36 — 15 years ago(January 04, 2011 12:09 PM)
I saw The Wall this fall and it sounded a bit too perfect.
But, you know, Roger isn't the young man he once was. I can't expect it to be completely raw. I still appreciate he goes out and performs.
And he looks good. The man just can't sing worth a damn. But he's a fine musician. -
Galley_WormFilledSkull — 13 years ago(September 21, 2012 07:45 PM)
What do you expect from a douchebag who performs on a concert pro hunting foxes and says he "doesn't recognize the England that he used to know" now that hunting foxes has been banned and who attacks Israel's right to protect itself from terrorist attacks denouncing the Gaza Bank Wall as "an obscenity". The prick goes out to defend the "right" of rich englishmen to hunt foxes and dares use the word obscenity out of context. Arshole.
'Officer, I didn't mean to be incestuous. The priest told me to go down on my niece.'