I really don’t think she was crazy at all. I think she was an abused person…
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ToastedCheese — 4 years ago(December 12, 2021 12:09 AM)
WarrenPeace said: She murdered and gets no sympathy from me.
Its not about sympathy, you dropdead tool! Its about understanding context and layers and for one to even have empathy, they have to understand what it is.
You wouldn't be capable of providing it and therefore you get no sympathy from me for being a retard….
Norman! What did you put in my tea? -
ToastedCheese — 4 years ago(December 11, 2021 11:52 PM)
I absolutely believe she was abused her whole life and simply snapped like anyone would do in her position.
Yup!
While she is considered a serial killer due to her offing several men, her profile doesn't neatly fit into the psychological traits of the typical serial killer type either.
Wuornos's killings were random and just born out of pure hatred for how society and men had treated her and of course utter desperation. She did not covet or actively seek out her victims and her main objective was to rob them after she had shot them.
She was more of a sociopath than psychopath and psychologists will say sociopaths are made. Aileen definitely was made, due to years and years of sub-human sociological/environmental and systematic abuse. I wouldn't even say she was a narcissistic, which is an inherent trait of psychopathy.
This woman was wroughted from day one of her life.
Norman! What did you put in my tea? -
J-Curl-BiggernBlacker — 4 years ago(December 12, 2021 12:33 AM)
I don’t even think she was a sociopath. I believe she killed in the way that every single one of us has the capacity to kill. She doesn’t appear to be Narcissistic in a way that a sociopath likely would be. She didn’t seem to have cunning and manipulative streaks in her. Well, not until she killed at least.
Tyra/Lee, on the other hand, seemed very exploitative of Aileen. And Tyra came from a well to do socioeconomic background where she could have easily helped contribute instead of never working. I was watching interviews with the Tyra where she was smirking, laughing, and seemingly getting off on sucking Aileen dry. In interviews, Aileen seems almost trauma bonded to Lee. My stomach actually churns watching the real Lee/Tyra in interviews as opposed to Aileen Wurnos.
I honestly believe Aileen Wurnos is the product that any one of us would be if we’re on the receiving of never ending abuse her entire life. After the first few killings, which I believe were kill or killed moments for her, I do believe she just snapped. You can only be on the receiving end of so much abuse before you snap and do God knows what. Aileen had no means to get help and NOBODY was helping her. If the movie Monster is anything of an accurate portrayal, Tyra/Lee spends basically the whole relationship guilting and manipulating Aileen into being an ATM for her. Wurnos, never experiencing anything resembling real love in her life, would easily fall prey to someone like Lee.
In the movie, Aileen is always babysitting and taking care of Lee, like a codependent. Lee is always criticizing Aileen, playing helpless little victim in need of rescuing. Lee appears to be a vulnerable narcissist.
Aileen appears to be self aware and almost enlightened in interviews. Psychopaths, narcissists, sociopaths are the complete opposite of self aware and introspective. Wurnos was also imaginative and creative—almost a lover. And not in a phony way either. At most, I think Wurnos could have been Borderline, but she seems to have a benign case of that—nothing that would turn her into a psychopathic serial killer.
Kiss my black ass! Toodles! -
ToastedCheese — 4 years ago(December 12, 2021 10:31 AM)
Aileen had no means to get help and NOBODY was helping her.
That is the way it appears to have been for her whole life. She grew up like a wild animal and had to rely on her instincts the best way she could, to get what she needed to survive, even if it meant having to sell her body at a young age.
This woman was just torn apart by wolves and had her soul broken since she was an infant.
I believe she killed in the way that every single one of us has the capacity to kill….She doesn’t appear to be Narcissistic in a way that a sociopath likely would be. She didn’t seem to have cunning andAileen appears to be self aware and almost enlightened in interviews. Psychopaths, narcissists, sociopaths are the complete opposite of self aware and introspective.
Aileen was operating from a very dark place inside and knew what she was capable of doing and while anyone of us are capable of killing, she had tetered over the edge due to unbridled rage and there was no turning back for her.
She was anti-social and there could be a fine line blur here between having sociopathic traits and just being a social reject and acting impulsively on a opportunity out of desperation. Wuornos and her actions were largely spurned on by her anger and hatred and I'd say this was only a consequence of never having really known any genuine love or affection projected her way.
I was watching interviews with the Tyra where she was smirking, laughing, and seemingly getting off on sucking Aileen dry. In interviews, Aileen seems almost trauma bonded to Lee.
Aileen wasn't the sharpest tack in the box and being the older woman, Tyra/Lee was perhaps also using Aileen for her own rebellious spirit and it made her look like a bit of a bad girl too. I think some girls are just drawn to that.
There had to be some connection between them and something Tyra/Lee wanted from Aileen. Again though, it could just boil down to Aileen being used again. Was she aware of Wuornos killing?
Norman! What did you put in my tea? -
J-Curl-BiggernBlacker — 4 years ago(December 15, 2021 03:55 AM)
In the Monster movie, she’s portrayed as being aware of the killings. I’d have to go back and watch interviews with her again but then again I’m assuming Tyria would never admit to that in the first place.
Kiss my black ass! Toodles! -
ToastedCheese — 4 years ago(December 15, 2021 08:41 AM)
Its been a while since I saw the film.
If she was aware of the crimes and was at the receiving end of what Aileen stole from her victims, that legally should make her very culpable and an accessory.
Norman! What did you put in my tea? -
I love hutch — 4 years ago(December 13, 2021 01:37 AM)
I can't stand Tyra Lee. Have you ever heard the audio tape where the police get Tyra to trick Aileen into confessing to the murders? Oh my God it makes me sick to my stomach. There is a moment where Aileen says to Tyra "I Love You" and she is crying when she says and I believe it's because she is beginning to figure out that Tyra has totally screwed her over and that she never did care for her. The way Aileen says those words is absolutely heartbreaking and how horrifyingly unfair it would have been to think all your life
"Why does everybody hate me?"
.
That's the stuff of genuine tragedy. I'll cut right to it and just call her a martyr.
"My life is over. I might as well dance with Johnny Slash!" -
J-Curl-BiggernBlacker — 4 years ago(December 15, 2021 03:57 AM)
God, that is a horrifying thought and I’ve been there. Aileen obviously didn’t have the means to get therapy or really even pick up a self help book-Aileen’s upbringing was as primitive as you can get in a horribly Capatalistic environment.
Kiss my black ass! Toodles! -
ToastedCheese — 4 years ago(December 15, 2021 08:48 AM)
Aileen’s upbringing was as primitive as you can get in a horribly Capatalistic environment.
It sounds like a deal was made then with Tyra/Lee to nab Wuornos in return for her being exonerated.
Aileen wasn't even given a fair chance by law-enforcement or the legal system. It appears she was just hated and scorned with unbridled malice, contempt and prejudice from all facets and that was the story of her "entire" life.
Norman! What did you put in my tea? -
I love hutch — 4 years ago(December 21, 2021 10:51 PM)
While she is considered a serial killer due to her offing several men, her profile doesn't neatly fit into the psychological traits of the typical serial killer type either.
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Yes. I have always thought that it was a complete misnomer to categorize Aileen as a serial killer, due mostly to the fact that Aileen derived no sadistic pleasure from her killings. She wasn't methodical in her killings, she collected no gruesome "trophies" from her victims, like you said. It was based on a combination of rage and a wounded animal's fear instincts kicking in. She saw mankind as her natural enemy and you can't blame her for that. The fact that she profited off her victims almost feels like an afterthought.
I need to read an article looking at the differences between psychopathy and sociopathy. Maybe Jeffrey Dahmer would have been a psychopath and Ted Bundy a sociopath?
I don't believe that Aileen was narcissistic, either. Not even close. In fact, what is referred to as "healthy narcissism" is something that Aileen could have benefitted greatly from. But with her unforgivably cruel upbringing, that was not going to happen. She obviously had no grandiose thinking.
"My life is over. I might as well dance with Johnny Slash!" -
ToastedCheese — 4 years ago(December 22, 2021 12:09 AM)
If you haven't seen this clip, it is worth watching for the explanations. I'd say both Bundy and Dahmer were narcissistic and that would lead straight down into the psychopathic route.
Not all narcissists are psychopaths, but all psychopaths are narcissistic.
Norman! What did you put in my tea? -
I love hutch — 4 years ago(December 22, 2021 07:41 AM)
I enjoyed listening to her explain all that. And I never did think that AW was a psychopath. But definitely anti-social and this other doctor said that Aileen was probably borderline and he said that she mostly likely also had Narcissistic Personality Disorder, which surprised me. I thought NPDs would have these huge, inflated egos. I guess not necessarily. This other male doctor (I am going to post a link to him soon as he does all these 18 minute long analyses of serial killers and he is very interesting.) Though this Dr. Todd Grande also says that AW lacked empathy and I don't know if I would agree with him on this. I think maybe she just got to a point where she was past caring. She seemed like a highly emotional person. I don't think she lacked empathy. What do you think here?
But this was interesting. Thank you for sharing the link. Now I wonder what the main difference between a psychopath and a psychotic is. Surely Jeffrey Dahmer was both.
I always thought of Ted Bundy as being like a great white shark. Just a merciless predator. Very scary man.
"My life is over. I might as well dance with Johnny Slash!" -
ToastedCheese — 4 years ago(December 15, 2021 08:58 AM)
Aileen had no one in her corner.
This has made me wonder what it must've felt like to be around Aileen. She must have triggered many people almost instantly, into a state of projected scorn and hate and ridicule without them even knowing her story.
Her anger and hatred must've been palpable.
Norman! What did you put in my tea? -
I love hutch — 4 years ago(December 15, 2021 04:51 PM)
Yeah, I've that about before myself. I hate to say it, but it's likely.
Of course, this wouldn't have been the case when she 9 years old and having sex with neighborhood boys in exchange for cigarettes. Why wasn't anybody watching her?
"My life is over. I might as well dance with Johnny Slash!" -
ToastedCheese — 4 years ago(December 15, 2021 11:56 PM)
Of course, this wouldn't have been the case when she 9 years old and having sex with neighborhood boys in exchange for cigarettes. Why wasn't anybody watching her?
Nobody even cared then and this is very much likely when all the contempt began to seep in. For Aileen, she would have seen what she could use to get some things she wanted, but my, how absolutely devastating for this kid to have to go down this track with other local kids that used her.
Norman! What did you put in my tea? -
ToastedCheese — 4 years ago(December 15, 2021 08:59 AM)
I think she was unwell mentally they also should have not killed her
She was like a wild animal that couldn't ever be tamed.
For Aileen, her death by lethal injection was perhaps a release for her. She apparently claimed as such prior to her execution.
Norman! What did you put in my tea?