How come it seems…
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dperth-33500 — 9 years ago(July 31, 2016 09:14 AM)
Freedom of speech is the right to say what you want to say, not the right to be exempt from criticism.
Why do so many people not get that?
The problem isn't that people are criticized, it's that they are censored and censured. And yes this is a violation of their First Amendment. -
marvin_el_martian — 9 years ago(July 31, 2016 06:21 PM)
The problem isn't that people are criticized, it's that they are censored and censured. And yes this is a violation of their First Amendment.
If it's the Gov't doing it then yes it is a violation of their First Amendment Rights.
But I'm sorry, being called out on bigoted or hateful behavior by another person isn't. Having posts deleted on a message board(that people agreed to abide by a ToS, CoC, EULA, rules to be apart of) isn't. -
dperth-33500 — 9 years ago(July 31, 2016 06:37 PM)
Because caring about gay people is the current thing to do now. If it was anytime before the 2000s no one would give a sh!t. It's clearly a sin now to condemn gay people and if you do, you're labeled as a homophobe. So much for freedom of speech, eh?
I assumed the OP was talking about people who have been fired for their opinions against same-sex marriage. If you fire someone for their religious or political beliefs, and they work for a government funded entity, private or not, they accept public funds which makes it a violation of First Amendment rights. -
marvin_el_martian — 9 years ago(July 31, 2016 08:54 PM)
I assumed the OP was talking about people who have been fired for their opinions against same-sex marriage.
No one was talking about that. Being labeled a homophobe =/= being fired.
If you fire someone for their religious or political beliefs, and they work for a government funded entity, private or not, they accept public funds which makes it a violation of First Amendment rights.
And if it's not a Gov't job, then they aren't violating anything. -
dperth-33500 — 9 years ago(August 02, 2016 04:29 PM)
No one was talking about that. Being labeled a homophobe =/= being fired.
That's my mistake then. I thought he was talking about one of the countless people who has been fired for having politically incorrect opinions like protecting traditional marriage.
And if it's not a Gov't job, then they aren't violating anything.
I said any job that accepts public funds. This includes all of the major media. It doesn't have to be a government job.
Personally I am glad that same-sex marriage is legal now. But that isn't the issue. To me the issue is when people get fired or are publicly shamed for simply having an opinion. That bothers me. And it happens all the time. -
marvin_el_martian — 9 years ago(August 02, 2016 06:38 PM)
Nope, actual Gov't job. Just accepting public funds =/= Gov't reprisals if your boss fires you.
When it comes to firing, I'm iffy on it. I'll agree that just saying "I don't agree with same sex marriage" shouldn't be a firing offense, but if the person is being aggressive and hateful about it, yea I wouldn't be torn up if they were fired(on the same token, aggressive and hateful defenders of gay marriage should be treated the same too). But when it comes to "public shaming", if your espousing bigoted and hateful beliefs(no matter what side of the issue you're on), you deserve to be "shamed" for it. If you can dish it out, then you most certainly can take it. -
dperth-33500 — 9 years ago(August 02, 2016 09:05 PM)
I'm not a lawyer but the way I see it, ones religious and political beliefs is not an acceptable reason to fire them, pretty much across the board.
When I said public shaming I was talking to the level of harassment and doxing which happens a lot more than it should. Some Swedish newspaper did something like this once where they outed the identities of anonymous users of a message board in order to publicly shame them for the political opinions. It's a horrendous thing to do. -
marvin_el_martian — 9 years ago(August 03, 2016 06:17 AM)
I'm not a lawyer but the way I see it, ones religious and political beliefs is not an acceptable reason to fire them, pretty much across the board.
I agree that simply stating one's views and/or beliefs shouldn't be a firing offense. BUT if they are getting aggressive and hateful about it, and it is affecting their work, their coworkers' work, and/or the company and they don't do anything to curb themselves after being asked/warned, they should be fired.
When I said public shaming I was talking to the level of harassment and doxing which happens a lot more than it should.
If it is going as far as harassment and doxing, than it is no longer shaming. And the people that resort to that should be punished too. -
jimmer69 — 9 years ago(August 12, 2016 06:09 AM)
Most jobs, especially government jobs, follow EEO laws. When a person's bigotry or whatever other things they think is protected by the first amendment causes a hostile work environment for others, they can get canned. Again, the First Amendment is about being safe from
prosecution
for religious beliefs, political complains etc. Doesn't mean there are no consequences. Getting fired isn't getting thrown in jail. -
dperth-33500 — 9 years ago(August 05, 2016 12:41 PM)
It's like saying "I don't believe in mixing races" to someone who is possible in an interracial relationship, some conversations should just be avoided in the workplace. I'm not quite sure why bigotry should be tolerated in the workplace in this day and age though.
It's not like that at all. -
dperth-33500 — 9 years ago(August 07, 2016 08:46 PM)
I'm not defending homophobia. I'm simply criticizing the practice of firing people because of their political beliefs and speech. I don't see why that's so tough to understand. Just like I don't think someone should be fired because they're gay.
Being intolerant of others sexuality isn't an attractive quality but one of the things that makes America great and that we pride ourselves on is that people have the right to speak their mind without being censured for it. Or at least that's how it should be. -
jimmer69 — 9 years ago(August 12, 2016 06:14 AM)
Firing someone isn't throwing them in jail. You may not think it's right for someone to get fired for being openly homophobic, or just being a bigot in general, but other workers have a right to a hostile free environment too. So if a person is spouting off his bigotry at the work place they can, and should, get fired. No law against that.
Now, throwing them in jail for their bigotry, that's different. People are allowed to be as bigoted and hateful as they want to be, just keep it out of the workplace and keep it in your homes and churches where it belongs. -
marvin_el_martian — 9 years ago(August 05, 2016 08:58 AM)
What I've always wondered, why does traditional marriage need to be protected? Is it being outlawed? Is it being taken away from us? What exactly is a "traditional marriage"? Is it just a marriage between a man and woman? Is it a church marriage? Is it a marriage where the family is adhering strictly to the teachings of their faith? Are all of those being taken away now?
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dperth-33500 — 9 years ago(August 05, 2016 12:43 PM)
What I've always wondered, why does traditional marriage need to be protected? Is it being outlawed? Is it being taken away from us? What exactly is a "traditional marriage"? Is it just a marriage between a man and woman? Is it a church marriage? Is it a marriage where the family is adhering strictly to the teachings of their faith? Are all of those being taken away now?
You're preaching to the choir, but Christians define traditional marriage as a marriage between one man and one woman. This is based on something Jesus said in relation to divorce where he talked about a marriage as a divine union between a man and his wife. -
jimmer69 — 9 years ago(August 12, 2016 06:03 AM)
Freedom of Speech is about not getting prosecuted by the
government
. You can get fired, you can be criticized, you can be censored, etc. It just protects the citizens for being put in jail by the government.
The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of
any law
respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble, or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.