Tyler got killed off?
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ursulazsenya — 9 years ago(November 12, 2016 05:51 PM)
They can write Enzo being as "devoted" to Bonnie as they want to, in order to cover up a toxic relationship, which is the fact that Bonnie is suicidal without him and talking about wanting to die without him.
You haven't been watching season 8 apparently but yet you find so much to criticise about it? Well, I have and so far, I've never seen Bonnie attempt suicide. I've seen her sad - and I've seen her vocalise her sadness instead of keeping it bottled in so she can be strong for other people's sakes. I've seen her put her needs (Enzo) above the needs of her "Friends" - from not giving a damn about Sarah Salvatore, to condemning Damon to death. Instead of in s7 where Alaric and Damon arm-twist her into resurrecting the dead and fixing their problems, I've seen Bonnie rescued several times - by Caroline, by Alaric, by Enzo, even by Damon in his own twisted way. I've seen her cherished and shielded in a way that she has never been. In a way that she could never be with her powers.
And I'm Ok with her "Suffering" for Enzo since none of her suffering has involved her sacrificing herself or harming herself for him. According to your definition of "suffering", then Stefan is "suffering" for Damon. And Caroline "suffered" all the times Tyler left her. And Elena "suffered" several times over for both Salvatore brothers.
No amount of devotion, love or anything can make that alright in any type of relationship.
Which is what you should have felt when Bonnie was jumping between a 200-year-old man and a werewolf without magic and ended up with a concussion for - what? - the 6th or 7th time in a row in season 7. That was a toxic relationship. Where Damon only called to demand a favour. Where Bonnie constantly risked her life for his own.
And Bonnie wasn't in yesterday's episode so these "people who watched" Bonnie standing beside a no humanity Enzo are telling bald-faced lies.
At this rate, you or your like-minded Bamon friends literally making things up out of thin air to support your bias.
Seems like you have your own shipping bias that you want to preach to Bamon fans about having.
I am biased against Damon, I will never deny that. I am biased against Problematic White Males whom the writing & the fandom continue to excuse and worship while they are quick to condemn and deride other PoCs. I am biased against people like you who play the Race Card over shipping and can't check their own double standards when they're running down another character/actor of colour to prop up said Problematic White Males.
Damsel in distress? Nope she is being used to save Enzo. Can't convince me that Bonnie is "empowered" talking about dying for or with a man. It's still her willing to die in the past being the magical negro, just without her magic. Empowered would be her concerned for Enzo, but still having the self worth and self value in herself, to live without him in her life and not talking about how she wants to die without him or because she sees Caroline's happy life.
Firstly, you need to go and google TV tropes Magical Negro because youhave no idea what that trope is about if you claim that there's anything about Bonnie in the episodes so far that has her playing that role. Like I'm not even going to bother arguing that with you because you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
As for the others
At no point in season 8 has Bonnie said she wanted to kill herself. At no point in this season has Bonnie said she wanted to die
for
Enzo. She said she was so sad that she felt like dying. It was an expression. It wasn't a declaration of suicide. And you know what? For a Bonnie fan, you seem to have no concept of what a
turnaround
that is for the character.
This is someone who has constantly swallowed and silenced her pain to be strong for other people and now that the show is giving her a voice, you are angry because she's not vocalising pain over your white fave?
Bonnie was going to
die
when the Other Side collapsed, and she kept this from everyone and concentrated on saving as many lives as she could. Her sacrifice wasn't even acknowledged. It was Liv Parker that somehow got the credit for the spell she didn't even complete, and that she only did to bring her own brother back from the dead.
Bonnie
died
in the s4 finale, and she
smiled
, put on her graduation gown and went to school the next day. She hid her own death from her friends for the whole summer. It took Jeremy defying her wishes for the truth of it to come out. All to keep the people around her happy.
Bonnie was brutally, viciously attacked by Damon in s1 and she barely got a chance to process her own pain before she comforted Elena for breaking up with her boyfriend.
Bonnie spent months trying to bring Damon out of the Phoenix World, doing a spell that it took 3 heretics to complete. And when he woke up, he choked her. The next time she sees him, she jokes about it, and takes the time to console/reassure him that Elena won't mind his infidelity.
Bonnie crying abo -
awesomebamon — 9 years ago(November 12, 2016 05:59 PM)
You're bias against Damon and will spin any type of pain that she is going through as "empowering" because it's Enzo. Still shipper bias for Bonenzo and spinning it as okay for Enzo. Bonnie being miserable is okay with you as long as it's for Enzo.
Shipper bias that you claim Bamon fans to have. Spinning any and all pain that she is going through for Enzo as positive, even if she ends up going through verbal abuse from his no humanity. No different from Bamon fans "bias."
Wanting to die and giving up on life for a man is toxic and putting all of one's happiness and self worth into a man is toxic for a woman, if she doesn't have self worth as an individual and the will to live on her own without him.
WIlling to look past the things that Enzo has done, such as belittle Bonnie at the start of Season 7 and be all about Lily and winning Lily over, and Enzo pistol whipping her and drugging her, holding her hostage and putting her in danger. Him verbally trashing her constantly in the first half of Season 7. Him choking her in seasons before. Enzo has had times when he has been physically abusive and violent towards Bonnie, like the men in other Bonnie ships have been. He's no saint or gentlemen during his entire interactions with her. Has shown that he was willing to get physically violent and forceful with Bonnie for his own selfish gains.
Not paying Bonnie any attention until Lily dies, overlooking the abusive and problematic aspects to Bonenzo, just like Bamon and Bonkai have problematic aspects. -
ursulazsenya — 9 years ago(November 12, 2016 09:30 PM)
Yes, I would proudly declare myself biased against the rapist white man called Damon Salvatore. Yes, I would proudly state that I am partial to the MoC in this situation. While I've never cared enough to ship Bonnie or - in fact - anyone on this show - I will proudly admit that in this case, I am rooting that this very rare, very special portrayal of a non-white interracial romance that has allowed Bonnie to bloom and be cherished in a way that I've never seen her on this show I am rooting for them to have a beautiful endgame. For Enzo to turn human, and he and Bonnie to have lots of beautiful biracial babies and grow old together.
And yes, I've never been so proud of being found "guilty" of anything.
Wanting to die and giving up on life for a man is toxic and putting all of one's happiness and self worth into a man is toxic for a woman, if she doesn't have self worth as an individual and the will to live on her own without him.
And once again - it was an expression! A hyperbole! The very next day, she's sneaking to the old Forbes's house to find Caroline's bridal book and going shopping for a bridesmaid's dress and committing to help Caroline have her perfect June wedding. Not the actions of a girl who wants to die. She was sad and she spoke her grief dramatically. At no point has Bonnie acted suicidal or depressed - just sad. And as I said, if you don't think it's empowering to see her sad and expressing her sadness, it makes me wonder who you're really a fan of in this show - Bonnie or Damon.
As for "spinning" pain, I noticed that you ignored all the instances where I pointed out that Bonnie suffered physically, mentally and emotionally directly as a result of her relationship with Damon. You apparently did not find the writing for Bonnie at that time problematic. So forgive me if I find it hard to be moved by your sudden insistence that Bonnie crying over a man while being protected and kept safe by everyone else - is traumatising to you. By your standards, Bonnie was "empowered" when Damon was choking her to death, right?
Not paying Bonnie any attention until Lily dies, overlooking the abusive and problematic aspects to Bonenzo, just like Bamon and Bonkai have problematic aspects.
And once again, I remind you that you had no gumption against shipping Bamon - still shipping Bamon while Damon was in a relationship with Elena Nor did you stop at any point in time when Damon physically, verbally or emotionally abusing her stop you from shipping them. It really blows my mind what you find so appealing in this dynamic. Before s6, Damon treated her like his dial-a-witch, pushing her to harm herself to save Elena and the others, and called her useless everytime she lost her magic. After that, she was still his dial-a-witch, only this time she was gladly endangering herself for his sake. And that was how you liked Bonnie?
It makes me wonder who you're really a fan of of Bonnie. Or of Damon?
(I'm not wondering anymore).
All you've proven by this is that you're OK with Bonnie suffering abuse as long as it's from the hands of your problematic white fave. But the show putting her in a loving relationship with a MoC who is devoted to her and is struggling to protect her, while keeping her cherished and sheltered by her friends Then you start nitpicking and playing the race card. -
awesomebamon — 9 years ago(November 13, 2016 04:29 AM)
And you're deflect to me shipping her with a white man and Damon being white, when you keep spinning her being in pain and suffering at the hands of Enzo and making it okay by saying that he is a MOC, even though on the show he is still a white passing MOC.
I'm not the one writing long metas in this thread saying why it's alright for Bonnie to suffer any type of pain at the hands of Damon or excusing any writing that has put her in pain at the hands of Damon. You're the one doing that with Enzo and trying to deflect to me, claiming that I'm playing the race card, when you are using a white passing MOC, who JP didn't write his character as a MOC on the show and who can still get the benefits of a white man, more than brown/black POC get on the show. He as white passing gets a story, yet has JP actually written any story for brown/black MOC?
And if you believe Enzo to be written and represented as an actual MOC on the show, does that justify Bonnie going through pain for him? Whether or not you excuse it off as just an expression her wanting to die for Enzo is a messed up thing and a regression for her character, for someone who didn't value her life in the past, for someone who wasn't willing to fight for her life in the past, for someone who was always willing to self sacrifice her life, well being, and emotions to focus saving others. All spun as her being loving and loyal to the others, Elena/Jeremy. Just like you are excusing her way of thinking the same way with Enzo as her loving him and him being "the love of her life".
Let's excuse all toxic and unhealthy ways of low self worth on love. Because love makes it alright for a person to put their entire will to live into one person and happiness into one person to the point that they can't function or live without that person, as if they are addicted to a drug that they can't function without.
But, because it's Enzo you think it's worth it and have a bias towards him and as a fan of his. Accusing me of being bias towards Damon. You can spin Enzo as a MOC, but compared to Bonnie has he had to face racism in the fandom, has he been compared to a slave, has he been called racial slurs like Bonnie/Kat has in the fandom? I mean he is white passing enough, where even some Delena Stans who accuse us of the same thing that you're accusing us of, shipping or liking Damon because he is white, will say. "Enzo is white and Bonnie is with him, so JP is not racist." The same DE Stans who say that the "race card" is being played, while at the same time some of them have called Bonnie the N-word and compared her to a slave.
Are you a fan of Bonnie or Enzo? Keep spinning all of the pain that she is going through as him being "devoted" to her, therefore excusing any pain and suffering that she is going through. In the past, present, and future, because of him, in relation to him and at his hands, you'll come back to that devotion.
And mentioning me overlooking and ignoring Damon physically abusing Bonnie, when I have called it out and I'm not okay with it. But, I notice that you glossed over and ignored me pointing out Enzo choking Bonnie and physically abusing her.
Maybe him being a MOC "empowered" Bonnie when he clocked her hard over the head with the a weapon, so hard that it knocked her out and maybe she was "empowered" by his drugging of her system taking her magic away preventing Damon from healing her with his blood. , maybe "empowered" by him holding her hostage at the Armory and the fall out getting her hurt by Tyler. "Empowered" by him verbally insulting her, because he was jealous of what she had with Damon and was all about how a woman could give him the love and affection that he wanted, one that he was trying to get from Lily.
Any verbal and physical abuse/trashing that she might suffer for him at the hands of his no humanity. But he's "devoted" to her and loves her right?
Me playing the "race card" when you bring up Enzo being a MOC to suit your needs and justify pain and suffering that Bonnie is going through. None of the physical abuse that Enzo did towards Bonnie stops you from shipping Bonenzo, none of his verbal insults towards her, People can list reasons for why Bonenzo is problematic and they are just like Bamon,Bonkai,Klaroline, Delena and all of the other ships on TVD are.
Bonenzo is not a real life example of a perfect romance to get into. When you are talking about a man pistol whipping and drugging a woman, and a man who choked that woman just like other men on the show have. So I can accept that Bamon is problematic, but don't act like Bonenzo is healthy. That Enzo is the perfect real life guy that a woman is suppose to fall for. What Enzo has done and Bonenzo's set up would make them a poor real life relationship to follow, just like all of the other TVD ships
I can accept that Damon is a flawed character, but while you are stanning for Enzo, he has been abusive towards women, harmed women, killed in cold blood and done just as -
ursulazsenya — 9 years ago(November 13, 2016 06:53 AM)
You don't think Enzo has suffered from the writing as much as Tyler? The stupid B and C plots that made no sense? The isolation from the core group? The OOC twists that turned him into a plot device? You can get up in arms over Tyler, but you can't extend the same 'wokeness' to Enzo? OK, then. See why it's impossible to take you seriously?
You keep ignoring my explanations and dismissing them as 'spinning' so I'm not going to bother. But you know what? If Bonnie has suffered in Enzo's hands then she has suffered in Damon's longer and harder. Damon has brutally murdered several POCs on this show including another white - passing character, Tyler.
Yet you can say "I can accept that Damon is a flawed character, but while you are stanning for Enzo, he has been abusive towards women, harmed women, killed in cold blood and done just as many flawed things as Damon has and has had some of his actions excused and glossed over and white washed by the writers , just like you choose to do in this thread. A MOC shouldn't get a free pass towards his violence, murders and abuse towards people/women anymore than a white man should. "
When that makes literally no sense other than to reveal your bias.
Can't you see that you're giving the White Man a pass, not the MoC? Are you self unaware that you can't even realize that you're giving the white rapist a pass yet hating on the MoC that has never forced himself on any woman on this show. Who turned down humanity off Caroline because it's not fun when a woman is not herself? The White man who brutally murdered a pregnant black woman and so many POCs on this show gets a pass not the MoC that was trying to save Sarah Salvatore and has never harmed any PoC on this show.
Seems to be you need to check your internal, self hating racism and and ask yourself why you're so desperate for your avatar on this show to be validated by a rapist white man but you're condemning the MoC twice as hard for doing half as much as your white fave. You might not be using racial slurs on Enzo but let me tell you something, it's implicit bias like yours that is far more insidious and dangerous than overt racism.
That's right. Giving a MoC twice the condemnation for half the crime a white man has. Congratulations on perpetuating racism. -
awesomebamon — 9 years ago(November 13, 2016 07:05 AM)
Where have I excused Damon? Please show me where? I have called out Damon plenty of times on his wrong doings. I actually made this thread because of it being wrong for the show to have killed Tyler off. Weren't U the one coming in and trying to defend the show or JP, by saying that at first that Tyler wasn't really dead? WIlling to give JP the benefit of the doubt that she really didn't kill Tyler in the first place. You're the one who came into this this thread when I pointed out how wrong that it was to kill of Tyler and just say that I'm playing the race card and deflected the issue to me shipping Bamon and how this thread got derailed into us fighting about Damon/Bamon/Enzo/Bonenzo.
When I mentioned Lucy, Tyler or anyone, you're the one deflecting it all to my shipper bias. Defending her killing Lucy by saying that she did it off screen. Discrediting who I brought up, because you rather try to "win" by proving a point against Bamon/Damon fans.
Defending JP's writing by going to your Bonenzo/Enzo bias and talking about how Bonnie is being written well for. But, yeah no doubt that them having Damon kill Tyler is a part of the problematic writing that they have done for Damon. Defending JP's writing when it suits propping up Enzo and your ship, like you accuse Bamon fans of doing. Being okay with JP's writing for Bonenzo/Bonnie, when it comes to Enzo getting the benefit of her relationship.
Now if I were okay with Tyler dying just because Damon did it, I wouldn't have made this thread in the first place. I call out Damon for his wrong doings and I have called out Damon for being a rapist. You're the one who came at me, when I made this thread on Tyler. Because you want to silence me for being a Damon/Bamon fan. Now you want to say that I played the race card in making this thread, but at the same time now use Damon killing Tyler as a POC to suit you. Because of your bias against Bamon fans in the first place, you'd rather try to silence and derail my point over, agreeing with me that it was wrong for the show to kill Tyler, whether it be Damon or someone else who did it.
You choose to ignore that. But nope Enzo being a MOC, I will not excuse his abuse, murders and wrong doings. That is nonsense. Like people getting upset with black women, when black women don't excuse the rape accusations of Nate Parker and give him a free pass for it.
Never gave Damon a pass, no why don't you address Enzo being a man period and how he has not raped anyone, but has kidnapped Caroline, killed Ivy in cold blood, physically abused and verbally belittled Bonnie, because last time I checked a man, white, black or any other color abusing women and being violent towards women is wrong and shouldn't happen. -
ursulazsenya — 9 years ago(November 13, 2016 09:19 AM)
You excuse Damon everytime you ship him with your fave or think Bonnie made the 'wrong' choice for not picking the man who had tried to kill her a few hours ago. Saying a few trite words does not nullify the fact that you've been actively rooting for this Rapist to have a happy ending with the woman he constantly treats like dirt.
Even in this thread, you phrase Tyler's death as the fault of the 'writers' not Damon. Funny logic. When Enzo does bad things, it's Enzo's fault. When Damon does, it's the writing. Even I fiction, white men get a pass.
You excuse Damon when you're going out of your way to pour vitriol on Enzo for doing far less than Damon ever did. Did you start a thread everytime Damon choked Bonnie in s6? But you "hear" that Enzo is saying mean things to Bonnie and you stage a riot.
You've also spouted a bunch of lies about me - at no point did I defend Lucy's death or Tyler's. I didn't realise he was killed off for real until last episode - just like everyone else. But by all means, keep spouting your internalized racism. Go and examine your self hate and ask yourself why White Male validation is so important to your self worth. -
ursulazsenya — 9 years ago(November 13, 2016 09:20 AM)
You excuse Damon everytime you ship him with your fave or think Bonnie made the 'wrong' choice for not picking the man who had tried to kill her a few hours ago. Saying a few trite words does not nullify the fact that you've been actively rooting for this Rapist to have a happy ending with the woman he constantly treats like dirt.
Even in this thread, you phrase Tyler's death as the fault of the 'writers' not Damon. Funny logic. When Enzo does bad things, it's Enzo's fault. When Damon does, it's his fault.
You excuse Damon when you're going out of your way to pour vitriol on Enzo for doing far less than Damon ever did. Did you start a thread everytime Damon choked Bonnie in s6? But you "hear" that Enzo is saying mean things to Bonnie and you stage a riot.
You've also spouted a bunch of lies about me - at no point did I defend Lucy's death or Tyler's. I didn't realise he was killed off for real until last episode - just like everyone else. But by all means, keep spouting your internalized racism. Go and examine your self hate and ask yourself why White Male validation is so important to your self worth.