Does This One Have A Gay Angle????
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Eponymous-too — 17 years ago(May 03, 2008 05:03 PM)
Only if you bring an agenda with you when you watch the movie. Other than a very brief shot of two female extras who are obviously "together" (and one of them dressed as a man) there is no gay angle to this movie.
"My name is Paikea Apirana, and I come from a long line of chiefs stretching all the way back to the Whale Rider." -
xenophile2002 — 17 years ago(June 08, 2008 05:43 PM)
Does
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
have a gay angle? You have these two guys hanging out with each other a lot and one's named Butch and the other is named Sundance
Do the
Rush Hour
movies have a gay angle? Lee and Carter sure do spend a lot of time together.
What about
Brokeback Mountain
? Just because these two guys
forgetimentionedthatone
http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm
The subject comes up often enough. -
Adler-99 — 13 years ago(May 02, 2012 01:17 PM)
"Other than a very brief shot of two female extras who are obviously "together" (and one of them dressed as a man) there is no gay angle to this movie."
I'm glad someone else noticed this in the cabaret/nightclub scene. I loved that scene for how the camera moved over the series of little bistro tables and gave the briefest of glimpses of those couples. -
magic8ball2112 — 13 years ago(May 30, 2012 10:21 AM)
Uh, no. They're 2 "best bud" guys, nothing more.
America's so sexually repressed that its surprising folks aren't re-evaluating all buddy pictures, trying to find gay subtexts in the plot! What next, that friggen
Lethal Weapon
's Mel Gibson & Danny Glover's characters were knockin' boots in between scenes!? -
Skye_Reynolds — 13 years ago(February 28, 2013 03:12 PM)
Not only does he hold his dying friend in his arms like he's cradling a lover, but he strokes his hair, kisses him on the cheek, and holds his mother inches away from his friend's throughout much of the talking. Even after mentioning the women they both love, one of them states that their friendship with one another was more important.
To be honest, I was surprised when nothing was mentioned about it in the trivia section. I expected to read that the director himself was a homosexual and had inserted that scene. In any event, it was a very touching scene. Straight, gay, bi, male or female, it was a great parting scene for two individuals very close to one another. I thought it had a lot riding on it. -
rsbrandt — 13 years ago(March 04, 2013 02:20 PM)
I don't think so. There's a reflection of this scene in the ending of another William Wellman's films, "The Story of G.I. Joe," where a soldier's parting caress of a fallen comrade's face is almost shockingly intimate, but I don't think Wellman intends us to read any suppressed homosexuality in it. I think he's onto something much more here: that men who have been through the hell of war together have formed bonds stronger than anything they'll encounter back in civilian life. (In the latter scene, there's something almost maternal about the way the soldier buttons and straightens his dead comrade's collar. Same thing.)
Of course, we're free to read any homosexual subtext we like into stories of male bonding, intentional or otherwise. -
preppy-3 — 12 years ago(May 07, 2013 08:11 AM)
Nothere's no gay angle here BUT I can see why people think there is. The way those guys are going on in the end seems laughable and downright homoerotic nowadays. However (back then) it was perfectly OK for guys to cry, kiss and hold each other without people thinking they were lovers. Still people think it's a gay love story. Hell they show the clip at the end where he's dying in the excellent docu "The Celluloid Closet" which was about gays in movies!
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Skye_Reynolds — 12 years ago(May 12, 2013 07:06 PM)
I have mixed feelings on the homosexual/bisexual subplot of Ben Hur. On one hand, I'm fine with Ben Hur being bisexual and Messala being homosexual. I even think that it gives a little more depth to Messala's character and makes him a little more interesting. However, I don't like Gore Vidal making those kinds of amendments to someone else's characters and I feel that the ex-lover subplot
completely
undermines the intended point that it was Rome which corrupted Messala. The subplot simply turns him into a jilted ex-lover rather than a representative of a corrupt and oppressive regime.
It's an interesting idea, but I prefer to think of it as non-canon. It's a great film either way though. I was privileged enough to be able to see a theater showing of it earlier this year.
Rest in Peace, Ray Harryhausen
(June 29, 1920 May 7, 2013) -
preppy-3 — 12 years ago(May 13, 2013 04:56 AM)
According to Vidal there was no real reason for Messala and Ben-Hur to hate each other so that's why he made them ex-lovers. I think that it was pretty clear that Rome corrupted Messalabut not enough to make him suddenly hate his best friend.
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Skye_Reynolds — 12 years ago(May 13, 2013 02:44 PM)
I disagree with him. When Judah Ben-Hur refused to give up the names of the conspirators, that severed things between them. Judah was loyal to his people, his nation, and Messala was obsessed with meeting the needs of Rome. To him, that was treason and everyone who remained silent was in on it. I find that more believable than Messala developing an intense hatred for Ben-Hur and his entire family over being rejected.
Honestly, I think that Vidal just wanted to insert a romantic history between the two of them into the story. There weren't any gay or bisexual characters in Hollywood, so he wanted to include a couple of characters. You had characters like Eddie Mars from The Big Sleep, Joel Cairo from The Maltese Falcon, or Dr. Pretorius from Bride of Frankenstein, but seldom if ever anything like this.
Rest in Peace, Ray Harryhausen
(June 29, 1920 May 7, 2013) -
preppy-3 — 12 years ago(May 13, 2013 03:50 PM)
Either way it DID work. A lot of people didn't pick up on the gay relationship anyways. Only Vidal, director William Wyler and Stephen Boyd knew about it. Boyd was fascinated about that angle and played it up. Heston was totally oblivious and I think it's hilarious to see those two guys playing it for completely different reasons:) I think you're right thoughVidal probably wanted to sneak it in. He knew gay guys would get it and probably love it:)
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Skye_Reynolds — 12 years ago(May 14, 2013 03:25 PM)
I think the two spears and the way that they interlocked arms while drinking was very telling. When I read the trivia after seeing the film for the first time, I was not at all surprised. There's also that kinda awkward moment where Boyd is smiling dreamily and Heston looks to be a bit uncomfortable. He has no idea what's going on and it makes his character seem as if he trying to ignore or downplay their history.
Rest in Peace, Ray Harryhausen
(June 29, 1920 May 7, 2013) -
preppy-3 — 12 years ago(May 14, 2013 04:34 PM)
Oh Boyd was acting it to pieces and it worked! I saw it back in the 1990s at a revival cinema. I didn't know about the gay subtext but it was SO obvious:) Some people in the audience were laughing out loud (in a nice way) and others were sort of looking around puzzled why people were laughing:) Heston to his dying day said there was NO gay subtext at all. Butthere is.
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preppy-3 — 12 years ago(May 17, 2013 11:40 AM)
I'd be more willing to believe Vidal over Heston. Let's face itHeston was homophobic. He probably hated Vidal just cause he was gay. We'll never know for sure though. However if Vidal was fired for trying to add it why was Boyd obviously playing it as if he were in love with Heston? The looks he's giving him are pretty obvious.
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preppy-3 — 12 years ago(May 17, 2013 05:48 PM)
From what I heard Heston was FURIOUS when he heard that but the studio told him to shut up and play nice:) He got all riled up again when "The Celluloid Closet" came out calling Vidal a liar and every name in the book. U know the censors MIGHT have caught the gay subtextbut Messala died so that made it OK:) I remember wheb "The Children's Hour" came out a few years later. It's made VERY clear that Shirley MacLaine's character is a lesbianbut she commits suicide so that makes it OK:)