Does This One Have A Gay Angle????
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Skye_Reynolds — 12 years ago(May 22, 2013 12:08 AM)
If I'm not mistaken, and I could be, The Children's Hour was loosely based off of a case in Ireland which took place in the early 1900s. The two teachers who were accused sued for libel and won, but the damage to their reputations had already been done. I've seen These Three, and if memory serves I thought it was the better directed of the two films, but I found The Children's Hour to be far more memorable.
As for Dracula's Daughter, the original screenplay was more open about her sexuality. It definitely had traces of sadomasochistic fantasies to it as well. If I remember correctly, she was supposed to torture both male and female victims - and hypnotize them into liking it. There was also going to be a wall adorned with chains and whips alluding to things not shown in the film. (The censors rejected it.)
Thanks for the heads up on which version of The Celluloid Closet to go with. This has been a very pleasant discussion so far. -
preppy-3 — 12 years ago(May 22, 2013 05:05 AM)
I agree that "These Three" was the better directed version but "Children's" impact was stronger. Also I know "Children's" was HEAVILY edited before it came out. The entire scene when they went on trial was cut out entirely! Shirley MacLaine mentions it in her autobiography. There's also a pic of the trial scene in "The Celluloid Closet" book.
I didn't know that about the original screenplay of "Dracula's Daughter". THAT would have been interesting if it were allowed:) As it is I'm surprised they got by with that one scene. Maybe because it was made clear that she was in love with a guy later on. AND she is killed at the end so
I heard in the original script of Hammer's vampire film "Brides of Dracula" the main vampire (Baron Meinster NOT Dracula despite the title) was going to be bisexualbut the censors rejected it. I think it was because the actor playing the role was openly gay. -
Skye_Reynolds — 12 years ago(May 22, 2013 02:13 PM)
That's all new to me. I've seen Brides of Dracula, but I didn't know that the actor who played the lead vampire was gay or that a courtroom scene had been filmed for The Children's Hour. Mercifully, its omission didn't hurt the film's narrative structure, but I'm sure it would have added to the drama to see how everyone reacted in court.
Also, I didn't mention it in the last post, but you're right about Victim. It was a good movie and Dirk Bogarde was a good casting choice. I think the scene where he confesses to his wife "I WANTED HIM" had probably the biggest emotional impact out of any in the film. Second place would go to the elderly barber talking about having been arrested for something he had no control over.
That was a film which escaped the ax when it came to censorship. Several lines were originally to have been cut, but then all but one of them were restored. I think the only part which didn't make it into the movie was a reference to an adolescent boy who "made the wrong decision." I guess the acknowledgement of teen homosexuality was too much for them at the time, but that still leaves the film's overall message intact. -
preppy-3 — 12 years ago(May 23, 2013 04:54 AM)
I agree that "The Children's Hour" works beautifuly without the trial sequence but it was confusing the first time I saw it. When the aunt returns to the school and they yell at her for not showinfg up at trial I was like "WHAT trial"? I think that sequence was cut out because the two women were found guilty of "having sinful sexual knowledge of each other". That might have been too strong for 1962. Rememberthe word lesbian was never said during the entire film.
I agree about "Victim" too. "The Cellulouid Closet" film actually does show that sequence when he confesses to his wife. The best thing about the film was the gay men are not made fun of and don't act fem and aren't lisping words. For its time that was revolutionary. The only American film that I can think of from that era that REALLY pushed the boundaries of showing gay men was "Suddenly Last Summer". There's a lot of pointless dialogue that leads to nothing but it's made clear a man is gay and is "using" boys that him mom and sis "procure" for him! It's a terrible movie and author Tennessee Williams was purportedly livid when he saw it but it was a huge hit and paved the way for better films. -
Skye_Reynolds — 12 years ago(May 24, 2013 03:58 PM)
If I'm not mistaken, Tennessee Williams disliked all of the film adaptations of his plays. Of course, they kept modifying the endings to minimize or omit the tragedies or to see to it that the guilty parties were punished in some manner. I could see how that would upset him.
As for The Children's Hour, I didn't even notice that the word lesbian was never spoken. -
preppy-3 — 12 years ago(May 24, 2013 04:44 PM)
That's right! I remember he hated "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof" because they made the ending all happy and the two guys who had gay sex in the play NEVER had it in the movie!
As for not ever hearing the word 'lesbian' it took me 4 or 5 viewings before I realized it was never uttered:) -
belaglik — 11 years ago(March 20, 2015 09:41 PM)
The way I see it, if you think it's there, then it's there. That scene reminded me a lot of the death scene in a much later Paramount film:
Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan
(stay with me here! I promise not to Trek out too much.) I don't really follow slash fanfiction, but I do know much has been written regarding Kirk and Spock's relationship exploring the possibility that it may be more than platonic. Is it just an intense bromance or is there more there? I think the same could be said of Jack and David. Yes, they like girls, too, but it's expected that they would.
Speaking of homoeroticism, did anyone notice the lesbian couple in the Paris nightclub scene? Look where the camera sort of does a flyover over several tables with couples seated at them until they get to where Jack and the others are sitting. -
hamlet-16 — 10 years ago(May 29, 2015 11:02 PM)
I think Wellman very much intended the homo-eroticism it is not an uncommon theme in war film the guys are not homosexual (not in the film or in real life) but they have a deep deep bond from experiences of war.
The medal scene just before intermission is rather odd am still trying to decide what Wellman was getting at there?
And yes the two ladies sharing a table in the nightclub were pretty astounding.. but you know Paris .sure would not have happened in Pleasantville Tx. in 1926 -
poetcomic1 — 11 years ago(March 11, 2015 01:59 PM)
No, sorry too much focus on babes. Just buddies. If you want a gay angle try Ben-Hur. The director and the actors and (of course) the gay co-star Stephen Boyd, picked up the the subtext of the movies but they all said DON'T tell Charleton Heston - he'll freak out!
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PopperTheKungFuDragn — 9 years ago(December 03, 2016 11:48 AM)
Not at all. Their caressing at the end was rather on the intimate side, but I think its just the way men were back then considering the kiss the men got when receiving their medals.
Poorly Lived and Poorly Died, Poorly Buried and No One Cried