Question About Harry Lime's Famous Quote
-
Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — The Third Man
bhoover247 — 14 years ago(December 09, 2011 06:57 AM)
"In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangeo, Leonardo de Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love. They had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did they produce? The cuckoo clock."
I understand Harry's reason for the quote. He was trying to rationalize his own terror. I was wondering about the validity of his statement. Switzerland is a small country without many people. Do you think their lack of artistic success can have anything to do with embracing peace and brotherly love or is it just a numbers thing. -
Altho73 — 14 years ago(December 10, 2011 07:08 AM)
In the movie Harry was trying to justify his own crimes by insinuating that some good would come out of it.
As regards the reference to Switzerland, peace and brotherly love, in my view he was insinuating that people need some sort of challenge, conflict or stress to produce great things. If left alone in peace and security people become complacent and just wallow in their own little world, stop using their brains and vegetate away into slothfullness.
Also he could have been having a go at Switzerland's role in WW2, saying thank goodness for Britain and America and heaven help Europe if they had to rely on Switzerland to save them from Nazi domination. -
alfa — 14 years ago(December 10, 2011 09:48 AM)
The speech was nicked pretty much word for word from a lecture that American painter Whistler gave at The Royal Academy in 1884, though I think one its barbs is aimed at neutral Switzerland.
It's rubbish. Swiss inventors are just as numerous as Italian inventors and they have been involved in just as many wars.
However, it's Harry rationalising his Catch 22 justification for what he does. If everyone's doing it, I'd be a fool not to. -
deeveed — 14 years ago(December 12, 2011 10:09 AM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUrKCUTUSPo
Here's an Orson moment..kind of in a different place than Harryhe's a master of inflection!.. -
pmiano100 — 14 years ago(December 17, 2011 11:09 PM)
What brotherly love? To quote the late Ian Fleming, "Money is the religion of the Swiss." Switzerland has been neutral for nearly 200 years because it's too small to do any harm, the mountains make it not worth the effort to conquer it, and it's more beneficial with all its banks and numbered accounts to let it stay neutral.
It's true it made weapons for the Germans, but it helped the Allies too. It was a matter of necessity and survival. Why provoke war with Germany and suffer needless bloodshed?
At least the Swiss do not hypocritically and self-righteously boast about how peaceful and progressive they are, like the God-accursed Swedes. If I had ever become President of the United States, I would have ordered Sweden nuked on general principal. As I have said before, any country that puts perfectly good pasta and meatballs in that disgusting BROWN gravy deserves to be wiped off the map. -
deeveed — 14 years ago(December 19, 2011 12:11 PM)
The speech was nicked pretty much word for word from a lecture that American painter Whistler gave at The Royal Academy in 1884, though I think one its barbs is aimed at neutral Switzerland.
The quote as uttered by Lime is interesting. And I'm thinking why should he care about a neutral Switzerland? Is their enough information there to think that he is "for" the Allies while he does his bad stuff? The cuckoo clock quip is an obvious dig at the culture and I think there's something about the Swiss that rubbed him the wrong way as he is doing his criminal activities. Does he think they're just like the Nazis on a continuum of moral behavior where they know about his project and perhaps turned a blind eye to it or even being in on it for profits? Vienna at that time appeared to be like the sewer of Europe. Lime probably thought the Swiss no doubt had to know about that too and he came to some sort of conclusion about them and that came out in his disparaging comment. Just thinking.. -
pmiano100 — 14 years ago(December 19, 2011 09:29 PM)
Neither Whistler nor Harry Lime were in any position to make moral judgments. BOth, I believe, just wanted to justify their own behavior, which in Lime's case was criminal. He was a child-killer, however indirectly.
-
bhoover247 — 14 years ago(December 20, 2011 07:08 AM)
Thanks for the info about the quote from Whistler. Since Whistler died before World War I he must not have cared that much about Switzerland not taking sides. Maybe the Swiss bankers never bought his paintings. I wonder if anybody ever asked Whistler for any additional comment about his quote.
-
pmiano100 — 14 years ago(December 20, 2011 10:37 AM)
As a West Point dropout and expatriate American who lived for years in Europe, I don't think Whistler was much for taking sides either. I was led to believe that he thought the Swiss were materialistic and had made few if any great contributions to the arts.
-
matt_shade — 13 years ago(October 19, 2012 06:56 AM)
I am Swedish and fully understand your stance on our hypocrisy. We let our politicians and top businessmen get away with far too much.
I don't know what this gravy you're talking about, though. Brown mincedmeat-tomatosauce-mix for pasta I know well but for meatballs?
But that's just me. -
pmiano100 — 13 years ago(October 19, 2012 09:52 AM)
Let me explain. There is a dish served in Chinese restaurants in the US called chop suey. It was invented by a Chinese chef living in New York, and is not well known in China.
Similarly, there is a dish called Swedish meatballs. It consists of tiny meatballs mixed with brown noodles in a despicable brown gravy. I am of Italian heritage and I consder it an atrocity against good meatballs and pasta. Most Americans believe it originated in your country. Is it possible that this atrocity against good eating is not really Swedish? If so, I apologize. But if it really is Swedish, may your nation be beset by the seven deadly Biblical plagues, including the death of all first born male children. -
matt_shade — 13 years ago(October 19, 2012 04:48 PM)
Whaaa?
In Sweden, Swedish meatballs are roughly pingpong-sized or larger. The brown gravy is poured but usually spiked with seasoning or a bit of red wine or the like if it's with some form of potatoes. If it's meatballs with pasta, I've never seen that brown gravy anywhere near it. If spaghetti, that's where a good red tomatosauce (or ketchup in a pinch) comes in. If noodles, probably some curry sauce or the like, though I don't think I've ever had noodles with meatballs.
Brown gravy on noodles eeuuch!
But that's just me.