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StrongRex — 13 years ago(November 21, 2012 08:25 PM)
And that's what makes the atmosphere so hilarious and lighthearted. That's why it does not fit after the rumble at all; "Cool" fits the tragic, suspenseful atmosphere afterward so much better. Why would anyone lampoon their superior rank behind their backs for the fun of it when something traumatic just happened to them, especially if they were in danger of getting into serious trouble?
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PillowRock — 13 years ago(November 26, 2012 10:07 AM)
but nothing so big has happened to the Jets to necessitate the anger and sarcasm in that song.
I disagree. Their entire lives have happened, and the anger and cynicism in the song is entirely appropriate for what the song is telling us about the entire backstory that those characters have lived through.
In fact,
that
is what I see as being the function of the "Krupke" song in the movie: It reveals character. It tells us the characters' backstories (both in terms of what it says about their homelives and what is implied about how much time they've all spent "in the system") and explains their motivations to a large degree.
In that regard, "Krupke" does for the Jets what "America" does for the Sharks (in the movie version, with the guys included). The anger and cynicism of the Jets is justified by their life experiences (as laid out in "Krupke") just as the Sharks' anger and cynicism is justified by their life experiences (as laid out in "America"). I think that placing that parallel character development for both gangs between the dance and the war council works quite well. With the songs, both sides having a complete unwillingness to back down regardless of consequences becomes an understandable outgrowth of character, instead of an arbitrary requirement of the plot. -
StrongRex — 13 years ago(November 26, 2012 11:12 PM)
Their entire lives have happened, and the anger and cynicism in the song is entirely appropriate for what the song is telling us about the entire backstory that those characters have lived through.
Only one problem: there is no anger or cynicism in the song. It's jaunty, comical, and happy-go-lucky. Therefore, it doesn't fit after the rumble. -
PillowRock — 13 years ago(November 27, 2012 08:53 AM)
Their entire lives have happened, and the anger and cynicism in the song is entirely appropriate for what the song is telling us about the entire backstory that those characters have lived through.
Only one problem: there is no anger or cynicism in the song. It's jaunty, comical, and happy-go-lucky. Therefore, it doesn't fit after the rumble.
First:
I apologize in advance, but I have to ask:
Did you read my entire post? Or did you see a couple of keywords that you didn't like in the second sentence and stop there?
The reason that I ask is because my previous post was arguing in favor of the movie's placement of the songs.
Second:
The entire song is nothing but an extended heaping of ridicule on every piece of the legal and and social services machinery for their uselessness and cluelessness, both individually and collectively as a contradictory bureaucratic mess where everybody just wants to clear the file from their desk and pass the problem to someone else. And you claim that there is
no
cynicism in there?
I agree with you on the macro point that the movie's song placement is much better. However, the claim that there is no cynicism in "Officer Krupke" strikes me as the single least supportable statement made in this thread. And considering what I think of the other poster's contention that "Krupke" should have been cut, that's saying something.
Third:
Happy-go-lucky? I wouldn't go that far. I think that the only and last time when the Jets' overall attitude approaches happy-go-lucky is in the early part of the prologue when the Sharks hadn't yet started to come together to oppose them. However, even then they seemed just a little too paranoid and jealous about guarding their turf for the full meaning of that phrase to apply completely.
Jaunty? I'm not certain that's the adjective that I would choose; although I know what you mean and I'm not sure what I would replace it with. They're in the mode of posturing in front of their friends to demonstrate how cool they are, how unconcerned in the face of cops and courts. They're consciously putting on an upbeat front that most of them wouldn't have if they were alone (and that the majority of them were not demonstrating before Riff showed up and talked them into it). That doesn't necessarily mean that their underlying feelings couldn't include any anger. (Actually, for a couple of the Jets I'm not sure that anger is
ever
all that far below the surface.)
Comical? Of course the delivery is comical. They're making fun of the objects of their scorn. Make no mistake, though; despite the delivery being in the form a joke, the idea being expressed is still "scorn". I suppose you could make an argument for the distinction between "scorn" and "anger". However, given that the song starts out of dialog complaining about being rousted just for being there when they weren't doing anything, and ends with the collective exclamation of the (none too subtle) euphemism "Krup you!" I think that there's an element of anger mixed in there as well.
And, yes, I agree that jokes would not be the way that they would express those things immediately after seeing Riff (and then Bernardo) stabbed to death. -
StrongRex — 13 years ago(November 29, 2012 08:48 PM)
Oh okay, I see what you're saying. I think I just misunderstood your post.
I said happy-go-lucky because when you watch the number, they're laughing and having a good time, even with their cynicism. And yeah, maybe I misunderstood that word as well. I only said it wasn't an angry song like so many people claim it to be; it's really only the last few lines that reveal their actual anger.
And the fact that it's comical alone is enough to disqualify its place post-rumble. We are not supposed to laugh after Riff and Bernardo were murdered; we're just not. It's at that point where there is nothing but seriousness and there's not supposed to be any more "fun" to be had. I know you recognize this, but there are just so many who don't.
And one point I made that no one else seems to try to refute is the fact of Action being completely out of character. -
friendoffilm — 11 years ago(April 16, 2014 05:11 AM)
in any case, I don't think that
"Officer Krupke"
should've been cut, at all, because that scene, too, is a very integral part of the story.
I
do
agree with the decision to switch the order of
Officer Krupke
and the
Cool
scenes around when the film version of
West Side Story
was made, however. -
friendoffilm — 11 years ago(September 10, 2014 10:28 AM)
Hi, Dan_the_Man_88. You're welcome. Glad I was able to be of some help by giving you support and encouragement. You post about
West Side Story
, and other stuff so articulately that it's wonderful. Thanks very much again. -
StrongRex — 10 years ago(September 07, 2015 03:53 PM)
Just posted it.
http://www.imdb.com/board/13581652/board/thread/248095965 -
marvelass — 10 years ago(May 26, 2015 09:45 PM)
Now comes the contract from the theatrical leasing agency, Music Theater International. There were a bazillion clauses in the contract about what we could and couldnt do with the show. Among them
- We were NOT allowed to cut any music. This created a problem, because I wanted to trim the prologue and the dance break in COOL a little bit, due to having kids that werent really dancers, and because Im not a true choreographer.
- We were NOT allowed to add the boys into AMERICA. I hadnt planned on altering the song, I just wanted the boys in the number. We were strictly and specifically forbidden. I had to re-do all the choreography.
- We were NOT allowed to move COOL, KRUPKE, and I FEEL PRETTY from their original spots.
Frankly, I was surprised that their estates allowed
Glee
to do the film version of "America" when the kids put on a high school production of
West Side Story
.
They even altered it a little by having the Jets (and their girls) crash the song:
Anita & Shark Girls:
Here you are free and you have pride
Riff, Jets & Girls:
Long as you stay on your own side!
Anita & Shark Girls:
Free to be anything you choose
Riff, Jets & Girls:
Free to wait tables and shine shoes!
Even though it made no sense to have them there, it was a nice touch, nonetheless. That would be something they
would
say but only something you could get away with on a stage, where characters can interject even though they're not part of the scene.
.
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Alchemistlover — 10 years ago(June 05, 2015 12:27 PM)
I had no idea Glee did that song until you mentioned it and actually really like that idea. You're right it wouldn't make sense them being there but it could also be the Sharks are imagining them saying that.
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MrJJay — 9 years ago(November 25, 2016 06:25 AM)
I didn't see the play yet (a great company is coming in may to Turkey which I'm hoping to see) but even then I agree with you 100. I'm hoping the company will adapt the film version but I know im just wishful thinking.
You have clarified your reasonings very articulately. There are many purists that consider the original always the best but that's not always the case. The structure of the film version is clearly better than the stage version. Even people here agree with you which is not something I would think as people generally tend to favour the original concept as I said. I wish the contract wouldn't insist on using only the stage version. You seem to have really grasped the core of the musical and I'm sure you will get the chance to play Tony one day.