Relationship of Jake + Po-Han
-
TheMemphian — 17 years ago(April 19, 2008 09:01 PM)
I considered that thought, when I was younger (first saw it in the 70's as a teenager), mainly because of the Navy's gay inuenndo/stereotype. However, having lived to be as old as Holman and beyond, I can see that sex had nothing to do with that relationship. Holman took pride in doing a "good job", be that engineering or coal shoveling. If he was going to do something, it was going to be all out. In teaching Po-Han how to do his job correctly, Holman learned that competence has nothing to do with race, only opportunity and guidance. Holman caught Teacher/Coach fever. Po-Han was his protege. Every teacher loves their star pupil.
I also notice how they have Holman go to a brothel, right off the bat. This is done to establish where his sexual interests and work ethics lay. i.e. You pay for a girl, then you go to work.
"What rotten sins I've got working for me. I suppose it's the wages." -Bedazzled (1967) -
hawks-bill — 17 years ago(June 15, 2008 08:57 AM)
I honestly don't see it. The relationship is one of elder brother, younger brother, mentor and student. However, I can appreciate the question because the two actors had the most extraordinary screen chemistry, eclipsing by far any chemistry one might discern between McQueen and Bergen.
-
haristas — 17 years ago(June 21, 2008 12:16 PM)
Yeah, I agree with that. In fact, the movie should have followed the book a little more in respect to Jake and Po-Han. In the book, if I recall correctly, Po-Han had a wife and home and Jake visited him there often.
I agree the chemistry between McQueen and Bergen isn't all that great, probably because McQueen really wasn't that great an actor, and Bergen was still young and very stiff. McQueen had great "star" presence on screen, but Spencer Tracy he wasn't. -
Doc-McCoy — 17 years ago(June 23, 2008 12:02 PM)
"McQueen had great "star" presence on screen, but Spencer Tracy he wasn't."
That's an interesting comparison, since McQueen was a disciple of the "less is more" style of acting that Tracy perfected.
As for the OP, I see no reason to believe that relationship between Holman and Po-Han was anything other than as mentor/friend.
"I don't need a bodyguard. The body I've got isn't worth guarding" - Groucho Marx -
Doc-McCoy — 17 years ago(June 27, 2008 01:19 PM)
"McQueen was great with body language and facial expressions, but he hated having a lot of dialogue. Somehow I can't see McQueen doing INHERIT THE WIND."
True - McQueen's strength as an actor was with body language, expressions, etc. He didn't have a great speaking voice and knew it, so he compensated by emphasizing the other aspects of film acting. He was able to use his voice well enough to add to his detached persona.
Tracy, though, had a great voice - especially as he got older and it became more raspy.
"I don't need a bodyguard. The body I've got isn't worth guarding" - Groucho Marx -
hawks-bill — 17 years ago(July 04, 2008 06:13 AM)
Nor can I see Tracy, whom I revere, doing Jake Holman.
Cinema is not theater, as McQueen well understood, and the unerring authenticity of his performance in The Sand Pebbles was based on his intuitive grasp of how the body, subtle facial expressions, and silence can be used to brilliant effect when developing a character. I strongly recommend the DVD commentary by Richard Crenna, which calls attention to many of these subtle but powerful moments. Crenna, a fine actor in his own right, was awestruck by McQueen's performance in SP.
Had McQueen been an indifferent actor, he wouldn't have been nominated for an Oscar against the likes of Paul Scofield.
Candice Bergen, incidentally, was only 19 during the filming of SP, and rather tightly wound on the set. McQueen invited her to his house to loosen her up but as she later admitted, the SP shoot was an intimidating experience for which she felt ill-prepared. Later, critics panned her performance as "wooden". Her unease, rather than McQueen's abilities as an actor, better explains the lack of screen chemistry between the two stars. -
haristas — 17 years ago(July 06, 2008 11:52 AM)
Just in case anyone here wonders, Steve McQueen is one of my favorite movie stars, and most of his films among my favorites too, but I have to be honest; he had a great screen presence, but if he were a truly great actor, he'd have done theatre. As far as I know, once he got into TV, then movies, he never went on stage. McQueen was a good movie actor, and sometimes when well-directed very good, but he was limited, mostly because, I think, he limited himself.
-
Doc-McCoy — 17 years ago(July 09, 2008 08:35 AM)
".but if he were a truly great actor, he'd have done theatre."
Perhaps. But stage actors are often overly theatrical in their film performances (Laurence Olivier and Richard Burton are two examples). By the 1960's, when McQueen was at his peak, few actors of his level of stardom did much stage work.
"McQueen was a good movie actor, and sometimes when well-directed very good, but he was limited, mostly because, I think, he limited himself."
That's essentially true; McQueen avoided roles where a lot of dialogue was needed. He was also extremely particular about the dialogue he was given, avoiding words that sounded strange or that had lots of r's and s's in them. When filming "The Towering Inferno", McQueen refused to say a line with the words "ping-pong balls" and had it changed; he was known to do such things on most of his films.
"I don't need a bodyguard. The body I've got isn't worth guarding" - Groucho Marx -
ScopeWatcher — 16 years ago(April 25, 2009 05:18 PM)
McQueen was great with body language and facial expressions, but he hated having a lot of dialogue. Somehow I can't see McQueen doing INHERIT THE WIND.
But that means you CAN see Tracy doing the majority of his own stunts? Just because McQueen felt more effective with less dialogue so did Buster Keaton doesn't negate how sensationally expressive he could be without it. (And to "great with body language and facial expressions" can also be added the gift of his convincing, very disciplined work with all types of props.) -
rogcbrand — 16 years ago(June 12, 2009 09:28 PM)
I think McQueen and Bergen were perfect in their roles! A proper young woman, in a foreign land in the 1920s was likely to be very much like the woman Bergen portrayed! And the same goes for a lot of young men, leaving a hard/troubled life to be in the navy- many would have been a bit sullen and not very talkative. The problem is, most actors are extremely outgoing and so most characters end up being similar, when in real life, the average person is a lot less talkative.
I can't imagine those characters being done in any other way! That awkwardness between McQueen and Bergens' characters just adds to the sadness, knowing that they really had an interest in each other, but they were on such different paths that it could have never worked out, even if he hadn't died. Just as in real life things don't always work out like in some fairy tale. -
frankiesbabe-1 — 16 years ago(June 21, 2009 10:54 AM)
McQueen hated learning lines, he had had very little schooling as a child, and he was dyslexic. Plus of course he was deaf in one ear. I consider The Sand Pebbles ( for which he was nominated for an Oscar of course) his finest film. Acting wise only Papillion comes close to it.
I first saw the movie when I was 12 years old and loved the relationship between Holman and Po-Han. It's been a while since I read the book but I do remember the relationship being questioned in the book. I have never seen it that way at all. -
tmf_scipio — 16 years ago(June 26, 2009 09:39 AM)
As for Steve McQueen's acting ability. I have never, ever seen another actor that can convincingly show that he has just woken up. He has one of those scenes in this movie, but I believe the best one is in Bullit.
"Whenever Mrs. Kissell breaks wind, we beat the dog." -
sanookdee — 14 years ago(February 14, 2012 05:38 PM)
you are correct. the relationship between Po-han and Hoh-mang was questioned in the book (very briefly, it ws only a couple sentences) by the Ensign. Lt Collins made it a point to mention that is why liberty and brothels were important to the Navy in those "less enlightened" days.
-
Hancock_the_Superb — 16 years ago(July 08, 2009 05:01 AM)
I like how EVERY relationship between two males becomes homosexual in the eyes of pretentious would-be film students and "queer theorists". Is it that hard to buy that two people could bond as friends?
"Whoever did this must be exterminated, and they must be exterminated by us." -
simonkevnorris — 9 years ago(January 30, 2017 12:20 PM)
In the book Holman and Po-Han get on quite well from the start and Holman starts to train him up very early.. Po-han was able to understand how the pipes connected but did not understand everything.
The reason for any lack of chemistry between McQueen and Bergen may be that she was supposed to be one of the few leading ladies in a movie that McQueen did not sleep with. -
Homang-come-down — 13 years ago(August 17, 2012 07:59 AM)
No, I don't see a sexual bond there at all, (Holman's relationship is strictly avuncular) but there's way more chemistry between them than there is between McQueen and Bergen. I'd go so far as to say it's one of the most emotionally true and affecting portrayals of male bonding (albeit asymmetrical) in the history of Hollywood.
-
ta2me92704 — 12 years ago(September 03, 2013 04:40 PM)
Nothing sexual at all, but I'll tell you what it was. It's something that few civilians ever experience or understand.
Most of you have seen Band Of Brothers and understand the comradeship that forms between men in combat. Combat is not the only place that the 'BOB effect' occurs.
I have experienced it myself. I was in the US Navy back in the early 70's, and went to war in the Tonkin Gulf 1972. I worked as a Boiler Tech. That's where the close friendships were formed, down in the shared adversity of the boiler room, and that is how those friendships are formedshared adversity. In the boiler room, it's not the bullets and bombs of combat, it's the heat and physical danger.
Yeah, no one shot at us personally, but the bonds are just as strong, and the words resonate with us just as strongly: "We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; for he to-day that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother"
My ignore list is much too long for a sig line. Do not assume you are not on it.