Relationship of Jake + Po-Han
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haristas — 17 years ago(July 06, 2008 11:52 AM)
Just in case anyone here wonders, Steve McQueen is one of my favorite movie stars, and most of his films among my favorites too, but I have to be honest; he had a great screen presence, but if he were a truly great actor, he'd have done theatre. As far as I know, once he got into TV, then movies, he never went on stage. McQueen was a good movie actor, and sometimes when well-directed very good, but he was limited, mostly because, I think, he limited himself.
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Doc-McCoy — 17 years ago(July 09, 2008 08:35 AM)
".but if he were a truly great actor, he'd have done theatre."
Perhaps. But stage actors are often overly theatrical in their film performances (Laurence Olivier and Richard Burton are two examples). By the 1960's, when McQueen was at his peak, few actors of his level of stardom did much stage work.
"McQueen was a good movie actor, and sometimes when well-directed very good, but he was limited, mostly because, I think, he limited himself."
That's essentially true; McQueen avoided roles where a lot of dialogue was needed. He was also extremely particular about the dialogue he was given, avoiding words that sounded strange or that had lots of r's and s's in them. When filming "The Towering Inferno", McQueen refused to say a line with the words "ping-pong balls" and had it changed; he was known to do such things on most of his films.
"I don't need a bodyguard. The body I've got isn't worth guarding" - Groucho Marx -
ScopeWatcher — 16 years ago(April 25, 2009 05:18 PM)
McQueen was great with body language and facial expressions, but he hated having a lot of dialogue. Somehow I can't see McQueen doing INHERIT THE WIND.
But that means you CAN see Tracy doing the majority of his own stunts? Just because McQueen felt more effective with less dialogue so did Buster Keaton doesn't negate how sensationally expressive he could be without it. (And to "great with body language and facial expressions" can also be added the gift of his convincing, very disciplined work with all types of props.) -
rogcbrand — 16 years ago(June 12, 2009 09:28 PM)
I think McQueen and Bergen were perfect in their roles! A proper young woman, in a foreign land in the 1920s was likely to be very much like the woman Bergen portrayed! And the same goes for a lot of young men, leaving a hard/troubled life to be in the navy- many would have been a bit sullen and not very talkative. The problem is, most actors are extremely outgoing and so most characters end up being similar, when in real life, the average person is a lot less talkative.
I can't imagine those characters being done in any other way! That awkwardness between McQueen and Bergens' characters just adds to the sadness, knowing that they really had an interest in each other, but they were on such different paths that it could have never worked out, even if he hadn't died. Just as in real life things don't always work out like in some fairy tale. -
frankiesbabe-1 — 16 years ago(June 21, 2009 10:54 AM)
McQueen hated learning lines, he had had very little schooling as a child, and he was dyslexic. Plus of course he was deaf in one ear. I consider The Sand Pebbles ( for which he was nominated for an Oscar of course) his finest film. Acting wise only Papillion comes close to it.
I first saw the movie when I was 12 years old and loved the relationship between Holman and Po-Han. It's been a while since I read the book but I do remember the relationship being questioned in the book. I have never seen it that way at all. -
tmf_scipio — 16 years ago(June 26, 2009 09:39 AM)
As for Steve McQueen's acting ability. I have never, ever seen another actor that can convincingly show that he has just woken up. He has one of those scenes in this movie, but I believe the best one is in Bullit.
"Whenever Mrs. Kissell breaks wind, we beat the dog." -
sanookdee — 14 years ago(February 14, 2012 05:38 PM)
you are correct. the relationship between Po-han and Hoh-mang was questioned in the book (very briefly, it ws only a couple sentences) by the Ensign. Lt Collins made it a point to mention that is why liberty and brothels were important to the Navy in those "less enlightened" days.
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Hancock_the_Superb — 16 years ago(July 08, 2009 05:01 AM)
I like how EVERY relationship between two males becomes homosexual in the eyes of pretentious would-be film students and "queer theorists". Is it that hard to buy that two people could bond as friends?
"Whoever did this must be exterminated, and they must be exterminated by us." -
simonkevnorris — 9 years ago(January 30, 2017 12:20 PM)
In the book Holman and Po-Han get on quite well from the start and Holman starts to train him up very early.. Po-han was able to understand how the pipes connected but did not understand everything.
The reason for any lack of chemistry between McQueen and Bergen may be that she was supposed to be one of the few leading ladies in a movie that McQueen did not sleep with. -
Homang-come-down — 13 years ago(August 17, 2012 07:59 AM)
No, I don't see a sexual bond there at all, (Holman's relationship is strictly avuncular) but there's way more chemistry between them than there is between McQueen and Bergen. I'd go so far as to say it's one of the most emotionally true and affecting portrayals of male bonding (albeit asymmetrical) in the history of Hollywood.
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ta2me92704 — 12 years ago(September 03, 2013 04:40 PM)
Nothing sexual at all, but I'll tell you what it was. It's something that few civilians ever experience or understand.
Most of you have seen Band Of Brothers and understand the comradeship that forms between men in combat. Combat is not the only place that the 'BOB effect' occurs.
I have experienced it myself. I was in the US Navy back in the early 70's, and went to war in the Tonkin Gulf 1972. I worked as a Boiler Tech. That's where the close friendships were formed, down in the shared adversity of the boiler room, and that is how those friendships are formedshared adversity. In the boiler room, it's not the bullets and bombs of combat, it's the heat and physical danger.
Yeah, no one shot at us personally, but the bonds are just as strong, and the words resonate with us just as strongly: "We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; for he to-day that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother"
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henryonhillside — 12 years ago(September 15, 2013 09:31 AM)
Regarding Jake and Po-han and a sexual bond - probably not. Regarding Jake and Shirley - I would say they're clearly lovers. The key moment in this regard occurs in the temple when Frenchy and Maily conduct their marriage ceremony with Jake and Shirley as witnesses. Afterwards, Shirley walks over to Jake and embraces him. The camera holds on Shirley's luminous face. And suddenly her expression changes from luminosity to pure carnality. The change occurs in her eyes. It's subtle and fleeting, maybe two seconds of screen time, but you can see it clearly if you're watching carefully. They walk off together and, IMO, become lovers within the hour. (Their new status, as lovers, is not shown explicitly in the sense of shots of them in bed, because the director's choice is to preserve some mystery, and because it's a 1966 film.) So, yes, "some desire" indeed. By the way, I disagree with people who say Candice is not good in this role and that the McQueen/Bergen chemistry is bad. I think she's just right - yes, she's wooden, but then, she's playing a somewhat repressed, overly-dedicated New England school teacher in 1926 who hasn't blossomed yet. That said, Candice should show signs of new physical freedom once she's become lovers with Jake. (One additional comment - another post describes how a couple of teenagers dissed this movie as "boring." I've been hearing for years about the declining attention span of Americans - I've always been a little leery of this theory - I have preferred to reserve judgement and have sought more evidence - well, I suddenly find myself mostly convinced of this phenomenon. A generation that could find this wonderful, powerful film "boring" is a generation that I'm worried about.)