Better than the first…
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thylacine80 — 9 years ago(January 02, 2017 08:55 AM)
for Halloween II, you have to look behind the camera as well
No.I don't have to do that.
I think it's an excellent movie and I find it better than the first, who itself was awesome.
But I'm not interested about what happened "behind the camera" to judge a movie.
The feuds or conflicts behind a film do not alter my appreciation of it.
even the people who made it didn't like it. That's a bad sign. If they don't like it, why should I?
You obviously need to know what the filmakers think about their movie to decide if you have to like or dislike it.
You shouldn't. You have the right to think by yourself.
For example, I like the film Goldfinger. The director himself could come out of the grave to say "MY MOVIE WAS BAD !!!", it wouldn't change my love for the movie.
But you have to admit this one does not get the praise the others do
Again, that doesn't bother me at all. I have no idea if I'm on the majority and I honestly don't really care.
Whatever floats people 's boats is fine.
I think you take it too seriously. It is only a film and you yourself admitted that it's all a matter of taste.
Take care. -
cjh8504 — 9 years ago(January 02, 2017 04:59 PM)
Dave is a loon. He can't think for himself. JLC and Carpenter hardly talk about it, and or dislike it, so it mustn't be as good as the original. Silly.
RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Robert Vaughn. RIP Carrie Fisher. RIP William Christopher. 2016 is the worst! -
dave626 — 9 years ago(January 03, 2017 04:09 AM)
Yes, you actually do. You see, in order to back up your claim that it's better than the original, you have to have all the facts, and I mean all the facts, not the ones you pick and choose to suit your argument. That is what's called an uninformed opinion and the furthest thing from fact. You started this by stating facts, when they're really your opinions.
As you can see, I've been backing up my claims with facts. So therefore, mine is the complete and informed opinion. I don't need filmmakers to tell me it was bad, I already knew that. But when they say it themselves, it goes from solo amateur opinion to professionally backed up opinion. So if I say it's bad, and they say it's bad and you say it's good, who do you think I'm going to believe?
Them, in case you were wondering. As I said, you are entitled to this opinion, but that's all it is. And one that's not even backed up by the people who made it. Just a few random strangers. So the majority of us disagree with you.
Of course I take it seriously, I have been a fan of the franchise since before 1988. That's almost 30 years. I've had time to research the crap out of these films and know them inside and out and base all my opinions on the facts presented.
Take care
"He came home." - Dr. Sam Loomis from the original HalloweeN -
thylacine80 — 9 years ago(January 03, 2017 06:19 AM)
you have to have all the facts
All the facts are in the film, and I love the film more than I love Halloween part I.
The gossip facts about Jamie Lee curtis not talking about it or John Carpenter being drunk don't alter my appreciation of the film.
You seem almost offended that some people think part II is Superior to part I.
You shouldn't.
I truly respect the fact you prefer the original, and I think we should take it a little less to heart. -
cjh8504 — 9 years ago(January 03, 2017 04:45 PM)
He is offended. And so are a lot of other people. They can't figure out why someone can like II more than the original. We must have no taste. Be heathens.
RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Robert Vaughn. RIP Carrie Fisher. RIP William Christopher. 2016 is the worst! -
thylacine80 — 9 years ago(January 04, 2017 12:00 PM)
He is offended. And so are a lot of other people.
Actually, that is not true. Every people ecxept him on this board peacefully enjoy sharing their opinions on the Halloween franchise.
Other people just told me it is all a matter of taste and no opinion is wrong or right.
"dave" is the first and only person I meet on Imdb to behave the way he does. -
Leo_Rossi — 9 years ago(January 04, 2017 07:15 PM)
Man up and take him off of ignore if you're so worried about what he said.
He stated his reasons why he thinks Halloween is superior to Halloween II in a well thought out manner. This doesn't coincide with your opinion so I have no doubt you'd resort to calling him a loon, dumbass, idiot, moron, or whatever childish comback you would come up with at the moment. -
thylacine80 — 9 years ago(January 05, 2017 02:48 AM)
Yep, I agree.
As soon as someone is getting agressive in his opinions, I start ignoring him.
That's what I'm doing, and I won't start calling him a "loon" or a "dumbass"it would be childish and only add to his anger.
Let's just say somme prefer Halloween I and others Halloween 2, nobody is right or wrong and it is anyway a wonderful franchise.
Have a good day everyone !
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dave626 — 9 years ago(January 05, 2017 07:20 AM)
Thank you. Wasn't trying to be aggressive, just a well thought out opinion. After all, I've had almost 30+ years to form it. I have stated my case, with facts, over opinions, which is something thy has yet to do in regards to II's superiority Facts > opinions.
But in either event, it's like beating a dead horse, as neither of us seems to be swayed or see the other's point. So no need for continued pointless arguing. Frankly, I've only come back for simest's and your thoughts because I wondered your takes on this. Which seems to float similar to mine.
Don't get me wrong, Halloween II was an okay movie, but it could've been so much better. Then again, it could've been a lot worse. It is what it is and by far, not a better film than the original, despite a few dissenting opinions. As of count, only thy and cj feel this way. 2 people. I'd be more impressed if it was 5 or 10.
"He came home." - Dr. Sam Loomis from the original HalloweeN -
thylacine80 — 9 years ago(January 05, 2017 09:05 AM)
Feelings about a piece of art are not about "facts" but about emotions and personal opinions.
Most of us had been fans of the franchise for 30+ years but we still behave like adults.
Never mind. Have a good day.
PS = I'm not interested in "impressing" anyone. Even if I was the only person in the world to prefer a film over another, I wouldn't mind at all, and I still would prefer it.
I never got the whole "we are more people so we are right !" thing, especially in art.
Take care. -
simest — 9 years ago(January 05, 2017 11:16 AM)
Feelings about a piece of art are not about "facts" but about emotions and personal opinions.
I've always shared this notion.
There's a simple distinction between the following:- Declaring one piece of work better or superior to another.
This is a statement of fact around a subjective issue and can be almost impossible to determine. It also can lead to lengthy debate where two diametrically opposed viewpoints will rarely find agreeable resolution. - Declaring a preference for one work over another.
This is the very nature of individuality and personal taste where wrongs and rights have no relevance.
This is why I have never claimed HALLOWEEN
is better
than HALLOWEEN II - even if in my mind I personally consider it such.
The reality is that I prefer it to its sequel and can give numerous reasons why.
But my reasons simply support my opinion rather than prove any fact.
The same should work for those who prefer HALLOWEEN II or indeed anyone assessing anything in the arts.
And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all.
- Declaring one piece of work better or superior to another.
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thylacine80 — 9 years ago(January 05, 2017 09:13 AM)
I just noticed in your last post that it seems like you'd like simiest to come back to state he's "on your side".. lol :
I've only come back for simest's and your thoughts because I wondered your takes on this. Which seems to float similar to mine.
I don't know how old you are, but boy you really need to gain greater depth. -
simest — 9 years ago(January 05, 2017 01:31 PM)
I've only come back for simest's and your thoughts because I wondered your takes on this. Which seems to float similar to mine.
I'd say my assessment of the two films is similar to yours in that I prefer the original by some distance and think it brings much more to the table than it's follow up.
My reasons are pretty much as listed in my earlier (lengthy) post along with a few others I didn't touch upon. The merits you value in HALLOWEEN and weaknesses you perceive in the sequel are by and large observations I am likely to share.
That said, I suspect I am generally fonder of HALLOWEEN II than you and therefore a little less harsh on it overall.
I judge it purely on how it plays out on screen and do not give thought to any turbulence in it's production history nor allow any criticisms by those who made it to influence my personal judgement of it.
This is partly because I feel art is very much down to personal appeal rather than backround history or the positive/negative reflections of those who produce it.
Those who wish to measure a work by including that criteria are of course welcome to do so.but I myself do not.
Roman Polanski made REPULSION - one of my favourite movies back in 1965. In his autobiography he is very critical of the movie and states it is shoddy and well below the standards he typically sets himself. He genuinely sounds like he is disappointed with the final outcome, yet critics generally - and certainly I - think it is a fairly remarkable work.
For that reason I can't allow Polanski's thoughts to play any role in how I judge REPULSION, because what he says and what I see do not align.
Similarly, I would be guilty of a double standard if I did not apply the same reasoning when judging all film and art in general. Therefore I have to dismiss Carpenter's negativity toward HALLOWEEN II when formulating my opinion of the film.
I suspect this is also the case for thylacine80, in terms of Carpenter's unflattering reminiscences of the film.
And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all. -
thylacine80 — 9 years ago(January 05, 2017 02:16 PM)
Roman Polanski made REPULSION - one of my favourite movies back in 1965.
Are you kidding ? ?? I LOVE repulsion !!!
It is one of my favorite movie ! I'd even say it belongs to my top 5 movies of all time.
I watched it maybe 20 times
I remember Polanski stating he didn't like it.
I disagree as I think it's his masterpiece.
So I guess you know "cul de sac", made by Polanski around the same time, with repulsion female lead' sister as the main character and DONALD PLEASANCE as well ?
This is wonderful too and the filming locations are fantastic. -
simest — 9 years ago(January 05, 2017 02:42 PM)
Are you kidding ? ?? I LOVE repulsion !!!
It is one of my favorite movie ! I'd even say it belongs to my top 5 movies of all time.
I watched it maybe 20 times
I remember Polanski stating he didn't like it.
I disagree as I think it's his masterpiece.
Indeed - it is a marvellous film and I remember being dumbstruck at how brutal Polanski is in his book dismissing the movie.
I live in the UK and last year was fortunate enough to visit several of the filming locations in South Kensington. I stood outside Kensington Mansions where Carol's apartment is situated and walked along the streets where she is filmed when the construction worker ogles her. I even had lunch in the Hoop And Toy pub that is mentioned and featured in several scenes. Even the beauty salon that Carol works in is still there but unrecognisable inside.
CUL-DE-SAC is also very enjoyable and often hilarious. Yes, it is indeed the sister of REPULSION lead Catherine Deneuve who is in CUL-DE-SAC - the very beautiful Francoise Dorleac. Tragically she died a year later in a horrendous car crash.
As with REPULSION, I have ambitions to visit Holy Island and look up all the filming locations for CUL-DE-SAC some day when I get the chance. Holy Island is a bit more of a challenge to reach from home than London however!
If you haven't seen Polanski's THE TENANT, I'd strongly recommend it. Very similar to REPULSION and possibly even more unsettling.
And Darkness and Decay and the Red Death held illimitable dominion over all. -