What do G1 fans think about the Bay Transformer movies?
-
matthew-reynolds2 — 16 years ago(September 01, 2009 05:37 AM)
I would love this series of films more if we had less about these boring humans and less of the trite coming of age rubbish and had more about Transformers trying to kill each other ! Would it not be great if they had one film which saw Unicron inducing inertia on the Transformers via a plague of some sort ? Then the All Spark AKA Matrix could revive a load of long dormant Transformers such as Dinobots , Lazerbeak , Buzzaw , Ratbat, Predacons , Terracons , Skylinx, Steeljaw and Ramhorn. This could be a bit of a rehash of what went on in G3 inasmuch as you could have the animal Transformers saving the galaxy from destruction.
I would love more of these films to be set in space so that these boring human sub-plots are kept to no more than a handful of scenes meaning that we get not only more Transformer characters on screen but more time for character development.
For instance if the Decepticon's suffered a bad defeat at the hands of the Autobot's you could revisit some ideas considered by the writers of the 1986 movie that never really where used. Megatron could be killed when leading a major attack on Earth which he has been duped into mounting by Starscream and his followers (Thrust,Dirge,Thundercracker,Blitzwing,Skywarp,Octane,Astrotrain and Ramjet).
Ultra Magnus could lead a major charge of Autobots against Devestator,Menasor , Bruticus and Predaking which could see Blue Streak ,Sideswipe,Windcharger,Gears, Hoist,Tracks & Skids get killed along with Inferno & Grapple. Optimus could turn up with the Dinobots,Jetfire (revived by Allspark) & Omega Supreme who then take out the Insecticons, Constructicons, Frenzy,Rumble,Ravage,Reflector & Shockwave.
The rest of the film could be about Starscream's leadership of the Decepticons with him & his clique running the show much as Galvatron,Cyclonus,Scourge and the Sweeps did in the 1986 movie & G3. I would not kill off Optimus Prime rather he would lead a revived Jazz ( brought back to life by All Spark),Prowl,Ironhide, Mirage , Arcee,Cliff Jumper, Bumblebee & Ratchet in a mission. This would be to stop the Quintessons & Sharkticons from wiping out the Junkions. The Autobots are transported around on Skylinx & Omega Supreme
The Decepticons by now have Trypticon as a flying base from which they launch hit & run attacks to try and gain enough energon cubes to fuel the reconquest on Cybertron. They strike across the galaxy and often end up fighting Superion,Defensor or Computron. Optimus Prime & co succeed in destroying the Quintisson home planet and the few survivors from the Quintisson & Sharkticon ranks team up with Starscream's forces.However the Decepticons get the energy they need and make their attack on Cybertron. The Autobots are secure on Earth as Starscream leads another attack on Metroplex - apart from killing Sunstreaker,Hound , Huffer & Brawn this assault achieves little. The Autobot combiners and Dinobots coupled with Metroplex deal the Decepticons a bad defeat.Starscream fails because of all his hit &run attacks across the Galaxy designed to boost energy supplies have left his forces over-stretched.Not having any combiners with him when attacking Metroplex causes his jets & triple changers and Soundwave to be outnumbered & out gunned.
Trypticon cannot join the attack on Earth because he is being held at bay by Omega Supreme, Jetfire and Skylinx. Having saved the Planet of Junk Prime and his Autobots reply to a distress call from an alien world under attack from the Terracons , Trypticon and Predaking. The Autobots see off the Decepticons but not before they have gained much in energy reserves.
The movie ends with Starscream leading a victorious attack on Cybertron meaning that the Decepticon goal of starting a Galactic Empire from the Transformer Home Planet is underway. So the film ends in stalemate as the Decepticons have only managed one of two objectives that is they have taken over Cybertron but failed to capture Earth & its energy resources.
But just before the final credits roll on this film we see the ghosts of Megatron,Insecticons Reflector & Construticons being morphed into Galvatron,Cyclonus, Scourge,Sweeps & Seacons while Shockwave is rebuilt as Sixshot. Unicron orders them to destroy Optimus Prime & Starscream and all their followers. Unicron vests his creations with awesome power as he wants the Transformers (save his newly created slaves ) wiped out before they team up & kill him.
That could pave the way for a fourth film. The past two have been set on Earth and just for a change having more Transformers involved with more action taking place on Cybertron,Junkion , Quintessa and on other alien worlds might make for a better third film. This is sci-fi not American Pie after all. -
ZeoRangerFive — 15 years ago(June 08, 2010 09:24 PM)
That's pretty much how I feel as well. There were just so many things that they changed or whatever and for no good reason either. First off that same year people were bitching because Spider-Man 3 had gotten away from the comics and didn't follow stories or characters correctly. Then a month or two later Transformers comes out and people LOVE it and no one seems to care that it didn't follow the cartoon correctly. I mean, first off it was too damn long, second in a 2 1/2 hour movie why would the main villain (Megatron) show up in the last 30 minutes of the movie? That made no sense. The Megatron/Starscream rivalry was whittled down to a line or two. Bumblebee couldn't talk and there was absolutely no reason to do that. There were other things I didn't like about the movie, but I can't remember them. I've only ever seen the movie twice all the way through, and that's enough.
Now, regarding the 2nd movie, I felt it was closer to the cartoons. I enjoyed the inclusion of the Matrix (regardless of the fact that it kept changing in size) and I liked that movie way more. But people hated it. So, it's just weird, people apparently want their comic book movies to stick to the stories, but cartoon adaptations they want the filmmakers to just do whatever they want. If it sticks to the stories then they hate it. People are stupid.
Dragonzord! Mastodon! Pterodactyl! Triceratops! Saber Toothed Tiger! Tyrannosaurus! -
Vihktor-24 — 15 years ago(June 09, 2010 02:28 AM)
It's not about which movie is closer to the cartoons, it's about which one is overall more enjoyable. ROTF retained much of the first movie's bad qualities and expanded them. People liked the first movie over the sequel because it was
better
in numerous fields, not to mention it was new at the time to see live-action Transformers on the big screen. ROTF didn't have that advantage.
And on another note, "cartoon adaptation" isn't a word that should be used to describe these. The makers stated from the get-go that these movies won't be adaptations, only that they would take ideas form what has came before. So please don't call other stupid because of your own ignorance. -
ZeoRangerFive — 15 years ago(June 09, 2010 11:10 AM)
No I'm not ignorant if they're going to make a movie called Transformers then it should maintain something from the original series. TF has one of the biggest fan bases and to take the series and just say we're only going to take the premise and screw around with it as we see fit is wrong.
Dragonzord! Mastodon! Pterodactyl! Triceratops! Saber Toothed Tiger! Tyrannosaurus! -
Vihktor-24 — 15 years ago(June 09, 2010 12:20 PM)
Names, character traits, artifacts, one or two voice actors, the basic concept of Autobots VS Decepticons don't these count as "something"?
And don't forget, there's much more to Transformers than just that cartoon show. The movies also took ideas from other sources, like Beast Wars and Armada. -
Vihktor-24 — 15 years ago(June 09, 2010 12:49 PM)
How so? Certainly, not all, but the most important characteristics were incorporated. Optimus is still the wise leader who protects his friends with his life, Jazz was the 'hip' guy, Bumblebee the main human character's best friend and protector, Ironhide a rough, tough and combative guy, Megatron a maniac who's hungry for power, Ratchet um I don't remember if he had any specific traits in the show other than being a medic, etc.
Not saying everyone was spot-on, nor that every character retained their namesakes' traits, but the basics were there. And they didn't deviate any more than some of the other series did. -
flying_falcon — 15 years ago(April 25, 2010 11:32 AM)
You asked for an opinion on the Bay movies verses G1. Here we go and I won't be surprised if this gets a few answers in itself. As it has been stated they were based LOOSELY on the original but there are some differences that were made that I disliked myself. First let me compare some of the Transformers from the movies to there G1 counterparts.
Optimus Prime: In G1 he was actually 3 units. The Optimus Unit which we saw most of the time (The part that was his robot form) The Prime Unit which consisted of his trailer in vehicle form and Roller. I read a few years ago that the Primes, ie Optimus and Rodimus consisted most usually of the Optumis or Rodimus Unit and the Prime unit in this type of format. Also in the G1 I always Like Optimus as an 18 wheeler rather than like in the Bay movies as just a bobtail tractor. Notice that in most of the cartoon versions Optimus most usually consists in this type of format (Or in the ones I have seen but I do not claim to have every version. Also to me Opitmus is a Cab over Tractor rather than a conventional like we see in the Bay movie. If I am thinking right in G1 he was modeled after a Freightliner as well verses the Kenworth they modeled him after in the Bay Movie. However it is harder to distinguish between the makes of the Cab over truck than it is for the Conventinals.
Bumble Bee: Opinions may very but to me Bumble Bee and Cliff Jumper both were modeled after Volkwagon Beetles I mean come on you can't watch a G1 cartoon and say you don't see that. In my opinion they should have modeled him after a Volkswagon. I have to agree that Bumble Bee and Spike were friends but Bumble Bee is not the same.
Megatron: In some of the newer cartoon he is a Tank that I can deal with but in G1 he was gun that from the looks the toy I have to guess was modeled after a .44 Magnum Desert Eagle. (But I haven't seen the toy in many of years so I might be wrong there) Making him a ship was wrong I would have preferred it if they had found a way for him to find a tank to disguise himself as.
They did alright with Frenzy but I would have preferred Rumble myself.
Both Ratchet and Ironhide were modeled after Toyota Minvans Ratchet was a Ambulance and Ironhide was more of a passenger type but they were Toyota Minivans of the time nonetheless. In The movie Ironhide was modeled after a Hummer SUT and Ratchet I am not 100% sure what he was modeled after.
Starscream: was about the only that was accurately transferred over to the Movie but the voice actor (in my opinion was wrong).
The Bay Movies were ok but they didn't have the feel of the Transformers, however in my opinion they wanted to push some of the Project cars through the Movies which is why they felt the had to Change Ironhide so drastically as well as Bumble Bee. They did to Jazz and then killed him. But oh well -
home0006 — 15 years ago(August 27, 2010 10:18 AM)
Cliff Jumper wasn't a VW Beetle, he was supposedly a Porsche 924 Turbo.
Anyhow my feeling about it was I viewed the first Michael Bay Transformers movie as an introduction to the franchise for a new generation. I knew it wasn't going to be true to the origins so I kept that in mind going into it. Overall I would say it was satisfying for what it was. No where near a great movie, and as a G1 fan who grew up with them there were a lot of things I would have liked to be seen changed, but I viewed it as Transformers, not G1 Transformers. It was though a fun movie.
As for the second ROTF, I hated it. I went into it hoping they'd build upon the first movie expanding the role of the Transformers. It didn't. It stuck with the same formula as the first one, but rather than improving upon it by adding more character development of the Transformers everything I didn't like about the first movie was magnified such as adding meaningless irritating characters like his roommate, too many dog humping jokes, the stoned mother running around campus etc.
Much like the Wolverine movie, it seemed like they just threw Transformers in there because they felt they had to. They gave familiar names to Transformers but gave them 0 personality or even lines such as Arcee and Sideswipe-which is what people like about the Transformers. I don't love Hound because he's a green jeep. I love Hound because he's an interesting character who appreciates Earth and would like to know more about it. Same goes for Prowl, he's not my favorite character because he's a cop car. He's my favorite character because he's the most logical of all Autobots, and his ability to process things at such a high rate to calculate the highest probable logical outcome is what made him 2nd in command. Michael Bay doesn't seem to understand this about Transformers fans and only sees the Transformers themselves as "instruments of destruction" for big battle scenes. It seems the only Transformers they gave personalities to were the two annoying twins. There was a time when I was watching it that I totally forgot Ratchet was even in the movie.
Once Optimus dies in it, I generally stop watching the movie because it goes down hill fast. -
blackheart981 — 15 years ago(August 27, 2010 08:20 PM)
Bay obviously did not know how to make TFs. He had zero idea on how every character was like, so what do we do from this point on? Make pathetic excuses of human beings, dumb jokes, and blow everything up! The latter being his trademarker. I simply loathed the first TF film and had high hopes for the sequel, but boy was I even more wrong. I'm glad Megan Fox walked out/got fired because she doesn't have to be associated to a film that butchered Transformers or almost had nothing to do with Transformers.
-
artimak — 15 years ago(August 29, 2010 10:42 PM)
Michael Bay doesn't seem to understand this about Transformers fans and only sees the Transformers themselves as "instruments of destruction" for big battle scenes
This is an excellent point - very well said.
I feel the exact same way - he sees them as tools to develop Sam's character - his maturation, his relationship with his girlfriend, his relationship with his parents, etc., etc., etc. He sees them as "other," as background support to offer aid or danger. Meanwhile, the protagonists are all clearly human.
By the way, Bay himself came up with most of the immature jokes and lines, including much of the dialogue for the retardo-twins. The reason they're featured so heavily (and have, unfortunately, the only real character development amongst the Autobots) is because they were/are his favorite characters - he said so in an interview. I wish I could say I'm just kidding (because some of my brain cells die every time I think about it), but I'm not - he seriously loves them. -
Banjo_oz — 15 years ago(May 12, 2010 07:29 AM)
Km9000 summed it up well; I'm sad that the CGI movies are the versions of TFs that most kids today will remember (part of why I was such a huge fan of Animated was that IMO that show was exactly what a "modernized"/"rebooted" TF show/franchise should be).
Bay's movies existing doesn't ruin my enjoyment of G1 Transformers (heck, I always far preferred the Marvel comics universe to the Sunbow cartoon anyway, even though I grew up with both of them as a kid), but I find it an awful movie from even an objective point of view, Transformers or otherwise.
It also might as well be a Go-Bots movie, because it doesn't FEEL like Transformers to me apart from Optimus Prime, none of the characters look, talk or resemble personality-wise ANY of their original namesakes it's really just a bunch of anonymous robot parts beating each other up.
And yes, the focus on humans makes the whole thing pointless anyway. TF: Animated (again) showed how you can involve humans a lot and still make a show about TFs. The original cartoon often focused on Spike and co, but it still never felt like it wasn't the TFs' own series. I don't mind humans in TF tales, but I DO mind when it becomes "TFs in human stories" (some of IDW's later comics spring to mind there too).
Bayformers, had it stuck to "a boy and his car who turns out to be an alien robot", could have worked but the stupid other Independence Day style cast of hackers, gung-ho army dudes, comical parents, black hat government agents, etc. were a total waste of time.
Simon Furman's 'Bay universe' comics are actually much truer to the originals we know and love, so it showed me that the writing has a LOT to do with it. Kurtzman and Orci were great fun writing for Xena and Hercules (they wrote some of the best episodes, especially of Herc!), but IMO they don't understand properties like Transformers (or Star Trek, for that matter) that they profess to be "fans" of, if these are the scripts they write. As someone once said "who the $%&@ hired these people?!" (in-joke for Herc fans
). -
artimak — 15 years ago(August 22, 2010 09:37 PM)
It also might as well be a Go-Bots movie, because it doesn't FEEL like Transformers to me apart from Optimus Prime, none of the characters look, talk or resemble personality-wise ANY of their original namesakes it's really just a bunch of anonymous robot parts beating each other up
Exactly.
Bayformers, had it stuck to "a boy and his car who turns out to be an alien robot", could have worked but the stupid other Independence Day style cast of hackers, gung-ho army dudes, comical parents, black hat government agents, etc. were a total waste of time
Well said.
I agree with 95% of your post. -
DamianGein — 15 years ago(October 14, 2010 02:56 PM)
Hmmm I liked the first movie a lot. Not so much the second one, explosion everywhere with no character development and it barely had a storyline ( if any)I grew up watching the original G1 ( though it's not my favorite TF series) and I think that the first one was a good entry to the Transformers franchise but that's about it.
You, will never realize, what darkness lies inside, inside my own mind -
jones82176 — 15 years ago(February 18, 2011 05:12 PM)
I hate them. Not so much because they are bad movies, but because I am 34 so the g1 cartoons, from 84-86 will always hold a special place in my heart. If you like the Bay movies, God bless you, you're entitled to your opinion, but they are NOT for me. I don't think putting them into a live action movie was a good idea at all anyway. The shows blatant disregard for size scale, as well as outdated technology, I mean, who carries a tape recorder anymore?, make this something that only works as a cartoon.
-
Enigmatic-Ocean — 14 years ago(April 05, 2011 09:28 PM)
It's complete garbage! What the hell does Bay or Spielberg know about transformers?! Why on earth thoes two were put in charge of this franchise is beyond me. They should have gotten someone who would honor the source material. The robots should have looked kind of like their Action Master counterparts. Instead we got "Transformers" who looked more like Bionicles.
Get on the chew pipe!