Was O'Neil a coward at the end?
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haynese_98 — 9 years ago(June 01, 2016 05:34 PM)
In the Nam a lot of soldiers did what they had to to survive. Fraggin' became a huge problem towards the end. Most soldiers will fight to save their buddies but when you gotz 10 days and a wake up left in the bush that's when it gets interesting!
Shall we play a game? -
nickm2 — 9 years ago(June 01, 2016 06:02 PM)
Fragging was mostly a 'behind the lines' problem where the grunts dealt with 'chicken shyte' officers their own way. Now in the fieldbeing a screw up & potentially getting your guys killed (regardless of rank) was sometimes 'dealt with' using a grenade (or five or six guys working you over with soap bars wrapped in towels)
Why can't you wretched prey creatures understand that the Universe doesn't owe you anything!? -
sfcwo2 — 9 years ago(June 01, 2016 06:41 PM)
LOL fragging is a lot different than a blanket party! Plus, fragging was employed against leadership whereas a blanket party is for motivation among the ranks. Our wing nut sounds like a true Fobbit. Good thing real soldiers handled perimeter security. Cowering in a bunker is exactly what the enemy wants you to do.
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stevekaczynski — 9 years ago(June 02, 2016 01:26 AM)
I think he was a coward. He probably spent all night hiding under a dead man, emerging only when the coast was clear. To be fair, he did not pretend to be a hero. Being put in charge at the end was the worst thing that could happen to him. He just wanted out of there. The only characters in the film more despicable were the rapist and Junior. O'Neil did have some comic value as a character.
"Chicken soup - with a beep straw." -
micirisi — 9 years ago(June 14, 2016 12:13 PM)
His argument, and I don't think much detail needs to go in here, is that O'Neil was a coward for hiding from the enemy under the body of one of his fellow men in an effort to just stay alive.
May not make much difference but the body O'Neil took shelter under appeared Asian. I always assumed it was the enemy. Also the NVA did not give the body the poke with a bayonet.
O'neil proclaimed himself a coward when he begged the Sgt. for a Hawaii leave shortly before the battle whimpering he had a "bad feeling."
Back to hiding under a body. The most fearsome enemy is one who will continue to attack even if it means certain death. The character O'neil was not a most fearsome enemy.
He killed sixteen Czechoslovakians. Guy was an interior decorator. -
stevekaczynski — 9 years ago(June 15, 2016 12:49 AM)
As a temporary expedient when your position is overrun, it might be defensible to do that, so you can resume the fight when the attackers have gone past. But O'Neil probably hid there all night.
"Chicken soup - with a beep straw." -
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berrys1178 — 9 years ago(June 28, 2016 06:43 PM)
"Red O'Neil" was a real person, as were most of the others in the movie. I was a student at the University of Hawaii during the 1968-69 school year. My roommate was my best friend from Florida. He and I put up military guys on R&R (Rest and Recuperation) in our apartment on Kuhio Ave in Waikiki. In September '68 we met a guy in civies with red hair and the thousand yard stare. He stayed with us that night, and told us his story
He was AWOL and determined to not go back to the military. He had a bag of pills, including White Lightning acid (LSD) pressed into fake Anacin tablets. He thought it was funny, because his acid would "fix your head."
He told us that he expected to get busted the next day, and that it would mean "Leavenworth" (a prison sentence) if he got picked up by the Military Police or Shore Patrol. We talked nearly all night, wanting to know about what was really going on in the 'Nam.
He had just come "out of the bush" after a horrifying experience that involved his squad shooting Vietnamese civilians. His story telling began about midnight, and continued for a couple of hours. We listened as he described shooting up a "ville". They had found evidence that the villagers had been feeding North Vietnamese Army (NVA) troops, so they killed as many villagers as they could.
The last thing that he spoke of before crashing for the night was how he got out of the Nam. They set up camp, ate, and then slept. They were overrun by an enemy force, and nearly all were killed or wounded. Red pulled his dead buddies over him when their position was overrun. They bayonetted bodies, but missed him in the night.
Red went on R&R, bought his bag of drugs, and prepared to stay stoned as long as he could. He correctly predicted that he would be caught, and we never saw him again after that night.
When Oliver Stone's Platoon came out, I went to see it. When I watched "Red O'Brien" hide under his mate's bodies on the screen, I flashed back on that night in Honolulu. It had all been true. I have no idea where Red is today. His actions were dispicable, but would I have done any different? I will not judge without having walked in his boots. -
stevekaczynski — 9 years ago(June 29, 2016 05:27 AM)
He is a fictional character though there were no doubt real-life examples of him. The character is quite unpleasant. (McGinley is a good actor, especially of types like that.) He is a wise-ass to subordinates, grovels to superiors and is openly afraid of combat. I pity those he commands after the film action ends because if there is any trouble he will run and leave his men to deal with it.
"Chicken soup - with a beep straw." -
haynese_98 — 9 years ago(June 29, 2016 12:31 PM)
If they would have given Red his overdue R&R he would have stood up and fought. I think the message from Platoon is that the whole way the "war" was fought was unfair. Incompetent leadership, the good guys get wasted for nothing, fighting amongst themselves more than against the enemy. Even inside this one small platoon it's divided and sure enough, one of their own leaders(Elias) gets shot one of his own peers..and nobody does anything about it.
What's Red supposed to do? Die in the jungle for nothing? He doesn't have support from his leaders, he doesn't have support from his peers, he doesn't even have support from his own country! His morale is completely destroyed so he just does what he can to survive and maybe he will see Betsy again.
Shall we play a game? -
conrrad — 9 years ago(June 17, 2016 04:45 AM)
"Those who judge are not qualified to do so"
OBVIOUSLY NOT MANY COMMENTATORS WITH MILITARY EXPERIENCE
The ACT of Cowardice is judged according to facts and specific circumstances as well as a simple "What is expected? What has been Agreed? and What is best for the Army/Nation/Soldier?"
It's pure silliness for any Armchair, Couch Potato Generals to claim "Cowardice" who have never faced death or terrible danger in Combat. NOTHING in life comes close and judgement of others who have no experience is useless, pompous and self-righteous.
Was HE a coward? Sure did seem that way throughout movie. Was that specific ACT cowardly? NO. Even the Army itself will tell all soldiers "We do NOT win Wars or Battles by dying for our Country. Making the Enemy die for his is the goal."
Living to be a fighting part of tomorrow's Army is not Cowardice when you would have otherwise been totally wasted~ -
stevekaczynski — 9 years ago(June 29, 2016 10:39 PM)
Court martial boards consist of serving officers though they may not have combat experience. Anyway, combat soldiers who are left to deal with an NVA assault while the O'Neills run or hide might take a less charitable view.
"Chicken soup - with a beep straw." -
The_Ultimate_Hippo — 9 years ago(July 07, 2016 03:16 PM)
O'Neil pretty much was a coward but I'm not going to judge him on the dead body incident, I have a feeling most of us in that situation would react similarly rather than going John Matrix on the entire North Vietamnese army.
"I really wish Gia and Claire had became Tanner" - Honeybeefine