Was O'Neil a coward at the end?
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micirisi — 9 years ago(June 14, 2016 12:13 PM)
His argument, and I don't think much detail needs to go in here, is that O'Neil was a coward for hiding from the enemy under the body of one of his fellow men in an effort to just stay alive.
May not make much difference but the body O'Neil took shelter under appeared Asian. I always assumed it was the enemy. Also the NVA did not give the body the poke with a bayonet.
O'neil proclaimed himself a coward when he begged the Sgt. for a Hawaii leave shortly before the battle whimpering he had a "bad feeling."
Back to hiding under a body. The most fearsome enemy is one who will continue to attack even if it means certain death. The character O'neil was not a most fearsome enemy.
He killed sixteen Czechoslovakians. Guy was an interior decorator. -
stevekaczynski — 9 years ago(June 15, 2016 12:49 AM)
As a temporary expedient when your position is overrun, it might be defensible to do that, so you can resume the fight when the attackers have gone past. But O'Neil probably hid there all night.
"Chicken soup - with a beep straw." -
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berrys1178 — 9 years ago(June 28, 2016 06:43 PM)
"Red O'Neil" was a real person, as were most of the others in the movie. I was a student at the University of Hawaii during the 1968-69 school year. My roommate was my best friend from Florida. He and I put up military guys on R&R (Rest and Recuperation) in our apartment on Kuhio Ave in Waikiki. In September '68 we met a guy in civies with red hair and the thousand yard stare. He stayed with us that night, and told us his story
He was AWOL and determined to not go back to the military. He had a bag of pills, including White Lightning acid (LSD) pressed into fake Anacin tablets. He thought it was funny, because his acid would "fix your head."
He told us that he expected to get busted the next day, and that it would mean "Leavenworth" (a prison sentence) if he got picked up by the Military Police or Shore Patrol. We talked nearly all night, wanting to know about what was really going on in the 'Nam.
He had just come "out of the bush" after a horrifying experience that involved his squad shooting Vietnamese civilians. His story telling began about midnight, and continued for a couple of hours. We listened as he described shooting up a "ville". They had found evidence that the villagers had been feeding North Vietnamese Army (NVA) troops, so they killed as many villagers as they could.
The last thing that he spoke of before crashing for the night was how he got out of the Nam. They set up camp, ate, and then slept. They were overrun by an enemy force, and nearly all were killed or wounded. Red pulled his dead buddies over him when their position was overrun. They bayonetted bodies, but missed him in the night.
Red went on R&R, bought his bag of drugs, and prepared to stay stoned as long as he could. He correctly predicted that he would be caught, and we never saw him again after that night.
When Oliver Stone's Platoon came out, I went to see it. When I watched "Red O'Brien" hide under his mate's bodies on the screen, I flashed back on that night in Honolulu. It had all been true. I have no idea where Red is today. His actions were dispicable, but would I have done any different? I will not judge without having walked in his boots. -
stevekaczynski — 9 years ago(June 29, 2016 05:27 AM)
He is a fictional character though there were no doubt real-life examples of him. The character is quite unpleasant. (McGinley is a good actor, especially of types like that.) He is a wise-ass to subordinates, grovels to superiors and is openly afraid of combat. I pity those he commands after the film action ends because if there is any trouble he will run and leave his men to deal with it.
"Chicken soup - with a beep straw." -
haynese_98 — 9 years ago(June 29, 2016 12:31 PM)
If they would have given Red his overdue R&R he would have stood up and fought. I think the message from Platoon is that the whole way the "war" was fought was unfair. Incompetent leadership, the good guys get wasted for nothing, fighting amongst themselves more than against the enemy. Even inside this one small platoon it's divided and sure enough, one of their own leaders(Elias) gets shot one of his own peers..and nobody does anything about it.
What's Red supposed to do? Die in the jungle for nothing? He doesn't have support from his leaders, he doesn't have support from his peers, he doesn't even have support from his own country! His morale is completely destroyed so he just does what he can to survive and maybe he will see Betsy again.
Shall we play a game? -
conrrad — 9 years ago(June 17, 2016 04:45 AM)
"Those who judge are not qualified to do so"
OBVIOUSLY NOT MANY COMMENTATORS WITH MILITARY EXPERIENCE
The ACT of Cowardice is judged according to facts and specific circumstances as well as a simple "What is expected? What has been Agreed? and What is best for the Army/Nation/Soldier?"
It's pure silliness for any Armchair, Couch Potato Generals to claim "Cowardice" who have never faced death or terrible danger in Combat. NOTHING in life comes close and judgement of others who have no experience is useless, pompous and self-righteous.
Was HE a coward? Sure did seem that way throughout movie. Was that specific ACT cowardly? NO. Even the Army itself will tell all soldiers "We do NOT win Wars or Battles by dying for our Country. Making the Enemy die for his is the goal."
Living to be a fighting part of tomorrow's Army is not Cowardice when you would have otherwise been totally wasted~ -
stevekaczynski — 9 years ago(June 29, 2016 10:39 PM)
Court martial boards consist of serving officers though they may not have combat experience. Anyway, combat soldiers who are left to deal with an NVA assault while the O'Neills run or hide might take a less charitable view.
"Chicken soup - with a beep straw." -
The_Ultimate_Hippo — 9 years ago(July 07, 2016 03:16 PM)
O'Neil pretty much was a coward but I'm not going to judge him on the dead body incident, I have a feeling most of us in that situation would react similarly rather than going John Matrix on the entire North Vietamnese army.
"I really wish Gia and Claire had became Tanner" - Honeybeefine -
Staropramen — 9 years ago(July 27, 2016 09:46 PM)
He and Barnes both came across to me as veterans of multiple tours of duty. IF that is the case, I can only wonder why a man like him (or anyone) would volunteer to go through all of that again.
If it WAS his first and only tour, I don't blame him for doing what he did. I'd be inclined to think his experience would benefit the platoon and any reinforcements soon filling in for those killed or wounded. It has been awhile but if any of the other experienced guys lived and stayed behind their experience might serve the same purpose. -
kidd-simon — 9 years ago(December 05, 2016 10:58 PM)
Not a nice guy at all, he was a bully but to call him a coward is maybe wide of the mark. King says at one point something like there is no such thing as a coward here which I think is true and is one of the key lines in the film.
It smells like a Spin Doctors concert in here. -
stevekaczynski — 9 years ago(December 08, 2016 12:18 AM)
It reminds me of a possibly apocryphal story about Marlon Brando before he started his acting career. He was enrolled as a cadet in a military school and he was asked, "if you find your commander lying dead on the field of battle, what do you do?" Brando replied, "Run like hell." He was promptly expelled.
"Chicken soup - with a beep straw." -
Neil_Williamson — 9 years ago(January 16, 2017 06:42 PM)
Just watched it again and to be honest there is little else he could do in the situation- there are about a dozen VC swarming down to his bunker and he is the only one alive there so if he had tried to fight he definitely would have been killed. It was a smart move to hide under the dead body at that point, but perhaps unrealistic that they wouldn't have checked he was dead - you can see his helmet when they look down into the hole.
Junior, however is definitely a coward, hides in the bunker for the whole fight, but clever enough to stab himself in the leg when he comes out from his bunker so he can get to go home injured.