Did Elsa deliberately choose a false cup?
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tveron1 — 9 years ago(April 11, 2016 04:32 PM)
She definitely knew what she was doing. She goes out of her way to be the one to choose, she picks quickly, she presents it to him with this big leering grin, and Indy looks at her like 'wtf' and you see that moment where her smile goes a bit weak because he knows what she's done.
She just didn't realise what it would do to Donovan, hence the screaming.
Afterwards, she immediately says 'it would not be made out of gold' - she knew that all along.
Apathy on the rise, no one cares -
Robbmonster — 9 years ago(April 18, 2016 02:18 AM)
In all fairness, I think she actually says 'it need not be made of gold', which has a slightly different meaning. 'Would not' is very definitive, while 'need not' leaves room for uncertainty.
I'm not 100% certain, but that is how I always heard it.
Never defend crap with 'It's just a movie'
http://www.youtube.com/user/BigGreenProds -
tveron1 — 9 years ago(April 18, 2016 02:52 AM)
Next time I watch it I will subtitle it and see what it says. I've always heard 'would not', but I don't see a huge difference in interpretation (if there's a difference, it's subtle enough not to affect it)
Elsa knew what was up enough to get him killed But again, i doubt she expected thel.. End result
Apathy on the rise, no one cares -
Robbmonster — 9 years ago(May 02, 2016 04:41 AM)
Fair enough
Never defend crap with 'It's just a movie'
http://www.youtube.com/user/BigGreenProds -
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Chris12955 — 9 years ago(June 14, 2016 11:26 PM)
Most people also should know that Jesus would have very dark hair and an olive complexion, but they don't. I think Donovan was like most people, working on preconceptions about how our heroes(in this case divine figures) SHOULD be, rather than were. It is an unfortunately common mistake people make that even real life scholars are guilty of. I would say it was a tragic mistake Donovan made, but knowing who he was, I would think fortunate mistake would be the better wording.
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Karl Aksel — 9 years ago(September 10, 2016 09:44 AM)
Afterwards, she immediately says 'it would not be made out of gold' - she knew that all along.
That could also easily mean that
now
she knows it would not be made out of gold, because of what happened to Donovan. It does not imply that she knew before.
Even so, she probably knew - I always suspected as much, but that was solely based on the camera focusing on her smirk as Donovan suffered the first ill effect. I did not take her comment "it would not be made out of gold" to reinforce that hypothesis. -
tveron1 — 9 years ago(September 10, 2016 06:25 PM)
The way she says it, says to me that she knew.
If it was a realisation, i'd say her tone would be different, perhaps more panicked. She's relatively calm about it, without a hint of 'oh beep me I was wrong'. She only freaked out because she didn't expect it to go like That
Apathy on the rise, no one cares -
Karl Aksel — 9 years ago(September 11, 2016 02:03 AM)
The way she says it, says to me that she knew.
If it was a realisation, i'd say her tone would be different, perhaps more panicked. She's relatively calm about it, without a hint of 'oh beep me I was wrong'. She only freaked out because she didn't expect it to go like That
The way she said it sounded exactly like "oh beep me I was wrong", because her voice trembled as she said it. If it hadn't been for that line, I would have no doubt whatsoever that she knew. As it is, she would have had no reason to say anything at all if she actually knew. Don't get me wrong, I still think she knew, but "it would not be made out of gold" is what makes it all ambiguous to me. She would have no reason to educate Indy on the subject, so that statement definitely seems like she was reflecting on a poor choice. -
Karl Aksel — 9 years ago(September 11, 2016 01:23 PM)
Meh, agree to disagree ^_^
Guess we'll never know until someone thinks to ask Spielberg.
In fact, that'll be the second question I'll ask him if I happen to run into him on the bus or something. The first question being, "what was the deal with the second blade, and how did Indy know about it?" -
Chris12955 — 9 years ago(May 01, 2016 02:15 PM)
I think Spielberg wanted it to be intentional. Elsa quickly picks the gaudiest cup there is and hands it to Donovan with a big smile on her face. As soon as he stops looking she turns slightly to Indy and her grin turns to a stern serious expression. When Elsa next look at Donovan she has a smile on her face again. She only started to look shocked and then horrified after he started to rapidly age, then rot all while firmly holding her(yuck!) No wonder she was horrified. I suspect she was expecting him to simply Keel over and die, not that.
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Maddyclassicfilms — 9 years ago(June 12, 2016 12:08 PM)
I think she did choose the wrong one deliberately. Notice she picks the most magnificent for him, then during Indy's choice she says "it would not be made out of gold". Sure it was deliberate.
Go to bed Frank or this is going to get ugly
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Karl Aksel — 9 years ago(September 10, 2016 09:50 AM)
I think she did choose the wrong one deliberately. Notice she picks the most magnificent for him, then during Indy's choice she says "it would not be made out of gold". Sure it was deliberate.
That comment could also easily mean, "I was wrong, it would not be made out of gold". That's certainly the
tone
with which she said it. From the very first time I saw this movie, the camera focusing on her smirk as Donovan first feels pain led me to believe that she knew. However, her comment that the grail would not be made out of gold is precisely what made it ambiguous for me. Like she only
now
knew it would not be made out of gold. She would have no reason to educate Indy on this, after all, and she was just the sort of person who would think the grail would be made of gold anyway. And the tone with which she speaks the words indicates that she acknowledges that she had been mistaken.
That's how I always interpreted it, anyway. -
the1armedman — 9 years ago(June 16, 2016 09:48 PM)
Yes, it's fairly obvious that she wanted to kill Donovan. Not only as others have said she knew it wouldn't be made of gold, but the look on her face when she gives it to Donovan and he drinks.
And also it seems the only one who listened to the knight in the first place was Indy. Donovan didn't seem to understand the consequences and Elsa that you can't remove the grail from the temple. -
jajceboy — 9 years ago(June 22, 2016 05:06 PM)
I never saw any ambiguity in the scene. Elsa knew what she was doing. She knew she gave him the wrong cup but wasn't ready for the consequences of it. That's why she looked shocked.
As a historian/ art lover she knew enough to know how the cup didn't look like, and gave Donovan the shiniest one. -
Blueghost — 9 years ago(November 13, 2016 07:38 PM)
by westward7 Sat Mar 19 2016 13:19:22
IMDb member since May 2009
I've rewatched that scene in the grail room several times and am not sure if Elsa genuinely believed that the chalice she selected was the true grail. It seemed like she didn't put that much thought into her choice. Did she purposely want Donovan to die?
Did you not hear her say "It would not be made of gold." After Donavan died and both she and Indy turned to look for the real cup? -
Karl Aksel — 9 years ago(November 14, 2016 03:51 AM)
Did you not hear her say "It would not be made of gold." After Donavan died and both she and Indy turned to look for the real cup?
I'm not sure what that means to you, but to me that means she did not realise before.