Do you root for Barabara or Oliver? - Oliver for me.
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miamisfootballplaya — 11 years ago(June 19, 2014 08:40 PM)
I have to say I side with Barbara. Neither one of them were saints, however Oliver got into a pissing match out of spite. If all she wanted was the house, she didn't want any money, and she just wanted to be left alone to start a business; why not let her? Oliver never really cared about the house, he just cared about controlling Barbara. He couldn't handle the rejection, and it is just another way of showing how insensitive he is.
Also, maybe if he had just given her some space when she needed it things could have been repaired. It could have been a simple mid-life crisis that could have blown over in time. In short, if a woman is so angry that she is talking about coming to blows, it might be in a person's best interest to let her have a cooling off period. -
bron-tay — 11 years ago(July 03, 2014 10:27 PM)
The reason I reluctantly side with Barbara is that Oliver really didn't care about the house; he just wanted to take it from her because
she
wanted it. The horrid fight over the house was mainly because of his vengefulness.Please put some dashes above your sig line so I won't think it's part of your dumb post. -
miamisfootballplaya — 11 years ago(July 09, 2014 12:23 PM)
I agree bron-tay. She was willing to forgo alimony, her rightful stake in his business, and any type of financial support and all she wanted was the house. He could have just walked away at any time and he would have been just fine, but Barbara leaving the house would have been devastating. He dragged this ridiculous thing out in the hopes that this would somehow win her back. Just his flawed logic there should tell you how little he knew her, or cared about her happiness.
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jztzt — 11 years ago(July 19, 2014 08:10 PM)
I dont agree with either of the characters tactics in handling the divorce proceedings. They sure werent saints and both had a role in instigating and propagating the messy conflict.
However, my sympathies lie with Oliver and not Barbara because whereas Barbara became cold, aggressive, uncaring, and unloving at some point in the relationship (and had not looked back since), Oliver had not gone past the point of no return. Its apparent that he still loved and cared about her even after all the painful fighting. He saw and felt remorseful of the errors of his ways. For example, this is evident when he had a frank sit-down with Barbara at the dinner table and tried to reconcile with her. At that point, he still loved her and was willing to patch up the marriage by doing the right things.
When Barbara heard that Oliver had a heart attack, not only didnt she sympathize with his condition, she felt happy and relieved that he may be dead. She didnt feel guilty about not visiting him at the hospital. In contrast, Oliver wrote a loving note to Barbara at the hospital, thinking that he may die.
Barbara felt progressively trapped throughout the marriage; and instead of talking it over with Oliver or a therapist, she internalized the pain and became more and more upset with him (for making her life so uneventful and meaningless).These all led to her breaking point and point of no return: the night when she felt upset enough to want a divorce. Throughout the film, she was unyielding in her position and didnt want to talk it over with Oliver (which Oliver was willing to do in a reasonable way), let alone hear him out.
Barbara was unrelenting in holding onto her stance and was resolute on the divorce. She was bent on achieving it painfully by either inflicting physical or psychological harm onto Oliver. She was willing to wreck the family unit by all means to achieve her freedom, lead her own life, and advance her career (something which Oliver was not prepared to do so). She reminded me a bit of the Meryl Streep character in Kramer V.S. Kramer.
"sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand. ~ Cool Hand Luke -
miamisfootballplaya — 11 years ago(October 14, 2014 05:59 AM)
Jztzt,
If I am reading this correctly you side with Oliver because Barbara wanted a divorce? Do you always side with a person who wants to keep a relationship alive at all cost, regardless of the other person's happiness? I think that Barbara made a mature decision once she came to the realization that she didn't love Oliver anymore.
Also, you talk about the physical and psychological harm she inflicted on Oliver, but forcing somebody to stay in a relationship with you out of pride is psychological abuse as well. If Oliver was really harmed, he could have dropped the entire charade, stopped demanding a house he was indifferent to, and walked away to marry someone younger. Heck, Oliver had an opportunity for an out that most men don't get unless they take it during middle age. He could have taken his money (that his wife of 20+ years didn't even ask for) and started dating a 19 year old.
The only thing that harmed Oliver was his pride. It hurt him that Barbara didn't want him anymore. However, mature adults often deal with this type of disappointment without it devolving into a pissing match to see who can sink the lowest the fastest (which by the way would be Oliver. Whatever Barbara did to him, she NEVER jeopardized his career).
The final point is, if Oliver truly loved Barbara (and not just the idea of the "perfect wife"), he would have given her space. He would have moved out of the house. Maybe if he had granted her respect and compassion, she would have realized that she had a good man she didn't want to let go. Worst case scenario, they get divorced, and end up being good friends that can reminisce about the good times. It also isn't unheard of for couples to get remarried after a divorce after discovering that the person they fell in love with is still there.
Everything about the way Oliver handled this situation was wrong, which is why I feel that this was mostly his fault. -
LukeLovesFilm28 — 11 years ago(March 27, 2015 12:38 AM)
People like you make it quite clear why men and women can not actually have truly passionate, sexual relationships. With passion, you get strong emotions like love, obsession, jealousy, anger and even hate. According to people like you, these are all evil emotions. Instead of actually letting people experience them and help them learn how to deal with them and act on them, people like you keep wanting to just lock those people for acting on those feelings. And then, you want to throw away the key. You don't want to treat them like human beings who are flawed in nature, because all you can see is the victim or victimization.
We're not robots. What kind of relationship do you have if you don't any passion for your partner? -
LukeLovesFilm28 — 11 years ago(November 14, 2014 02:08 AM)
I'm rooting for Oliver every time. Not because I'm a man. As a man, I have to admit that Oliver really is an a$$hole at times. But, he wasn't trying to kill Barbara until she was clearly trying to kill him.
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Z_cm — 11 years ago(March 11, 2015 07:28 PM)
I think you're not supposed to side with either of them. It's a movie about divorce and what not to do when it happens. If anything, I side with Danny DeVito's character: if you can't reach an agreement, it's time to compromise.
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lrdcharlton — 10 years ago(May 14, 2015 09:57 PM)
How can you side with her when he has no clue how she felt, and then resorts to extreme measures against him. He thought she was happy and then when he really notices her dissatisfaction he flat out asks her what the problem is, and dosent give him an answer until she asked for a divorcce not giving him a chance to change. And if you recall Barbra was the first one to be aggressive.
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LukeLovesFilm28 — 10 years ago(December 06, 2015 01:30 PM)
Exactly. How is he supposed to know she's so unhappy if she doesn't voice her feelings and concerns about the marriage? He's "dug in" to his work, trying to make the money to pay for everything. He's blinded by duty and ambition. But, I never got the sense that he was unwilling to hear her out when it came to their relationship.
"What the hell is wrong with you?" Forget the tone. He's actually trying to get to the root of the problem before it gets worse.
When she's calling him, beep face" because he was a little rude to her at dinner, he gave in and accepted that he was acting like a jerk. Did Barbara ever show that she regretted anything that happened to Oliver? Did she ever show that she cared? No. In fact, she tried to kill or seriously wound him numerous times.
But, of course, she has every right to treat him anyway she wants. All the effort he put into making such a great life him and his family doesn't really matter at all. He is an oppressive male. -
pullman1881 — 10 years ago(November 14, 2015 05:11 PM)
I think they're both lunatics and love the fact that neither gave inI was going to say "particularly Barbara" but then realized that's not true. Had either one capitulated, it would have been a different movie and wouldn't be nearly as great as it is. I never sided with either one because I didn't really want either to win. I even loved the end, when he reaches over and touches her and she disdainfully throws is hand off. That's the way it had to end.
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lh_lh82 — 10 years ago(December 19, 2015 05:22 PM)
Oliver's a controlling bully from early on. He volunteers his wife to "perform" for his bosses, then humiliates her when she doesn't perform as perfectly as he demands. He's threatened by her attempts to develop herself professionally, throws her cat around, tries to dictate her decisions for starting her own business, but doesn't make the effort to read her contracts when she asks his opinion on them. He's disrespectful. Eventually someone is going to object or possibly retaliate against treatment like that, and when Barbara does, Oliver becomes even more childish. Of course, at that point, they both go entirely over the top. But I sympathized more with Barbara because of the condescending way Oliver treated her.
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lizcarlo87 — 10 years ago(December 28, 2015 12:31 PM)
I don't side with either. She did communicate her unhappiness in the beginning about the dinner party when he cut her off. He made excuses for it and dismissed her felling's. I'm sure he has done that to her a lot of times throughout their marriage over the years. When someone does that to some people they internalize with that particular person, because they know their felling's will just get dismissed. He would not have cared about her felling's.
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doubl3 — 9 years ago(April 21, 2016 05:22 AM)
Anyone siding with Barbara I would be scared to know in real life. The husband did nothing horrible and she was physically hitting him, giving him zero reason for wanting the divorce, using his kind gesture of a note against him, etc. It sadly just seemed like realism to me, with the woman feeling entitled to hit men and break his stuff, etc Only thing he did wrong up tp that point was he was kind of an ass, which is no grounds for how she acted.
So anyone in here saying Barbara I would have to think would be scary IRL, to think that her physical abuse and destroying property was ok because.. he occasionally talked in a rude tone. Oh noes, so deserving of a woman punching you and breaking your stuff.