the british
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Stevicus-2 — 18 years ago(February 26, 2008 06:48 PM)
Don't forget the War of 1812. The last time the British and Americans met in battle, this is what the British did:
"Yeah, they ran through the briars and they ran through the brambles
And they ran through the bushes where a rabbit couldn't go.
They ran so fast that the hounds couldn't catch 'em
Down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico."
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mrh1000-1 — 18 years ago(February 27, 2008 03:20 AM)
I seem to recall the Vietnam War and Americans napalming women and children, what bravery.
I don't seem to remember a resounding US victory in that war, although I do remember the Americans scurrying on to helicopters as their embassy was finally stormed by the crowds.
America is now known as the worlds bully, what do you think is going on at Guatanamo Bay.
For an American to start a thread like this is laughable. -
Gareth2061 — 18 years ago(February 27, 2008 05:38 PM)
The Op's post was inarticulate and moronic and not really worth of all of this response.
Ameerica is in the driving seat at the moment, if it wasnt someone else would be. True the US has made a few poorly judged moves lately, just be glad it isnt China or Russia where your life really doesnt mean a damn.
"If I'm laughing at what I think I am, its very funny" -
mrh1000-1 — 18 years ago(February 29, 2008 11:22 AM)
Oh, get over yourself, will you? Now that you bring it up, I seem to recall a little country called India that you Brits decided to prop your feet up on for well over a century (after killing the people who didn't want you to, of course), so don't give me that holier-than-thou attitude like your country is so morally superior to ours. Not to mention your ancestors, who decided in the 5th-6th centuries that they liked England except for all those pesky Welsh people who were living there already (please remember this the next time you want to criticize Americans for taking land from the American Indians).
The OP is an obnoxious ass, but America is not the evil power you all seem to think it is. If you really think that, then I suggest you all study the history of EVERY NATION ON EARTH and realize that EVERYBODY sucks. Why can't we leave it at that?
The Empire was mainly based on trade, and we didn't massacre Indians, that happened in 1847 when we left and a civil war errupted in which a million were killed. The nation of Pakistan was then born.
America is not being the evil power you think it is, and Britain is?????????
Is this what you are trying to suggest. When you people start a thread like this don't be surprised when people become defensive. I didn't start a thread regarding how evil America is, but I will highlight cases in response to Americans with their Hollywood history accusing the rest of the world of being evil.
America even freely admits waterboarding and tortuting techniques being used against untried suspects in Guantanmo Bay. America does not adhere to either the Geneva Convention, which the American Government has said is outdated or other international laws. Finally as I already mentioned only a few decades ago American forces were using Napalm and Agent Orange against Vietnamese Villages.
Americans can hardly criticise other nations.
Even at home America imprisons more people than any other nation, and figures just released show 2.3 million in jail. The UK would have to imprison 460,000 people to match American rates. We actually have a UK Prison populastion of 90,000 one of the highest in Europe.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7270607.stm -
Maegnas — 12 years ago(October 08, 2013 06:08 PM)
The Empire was mainly based on trade, and we didn't massacre Indians,
General Dyer waswhat? Chinese perhaps? American? Persian?
And I believe he did, in Amritsar, hand out chocolate chip cookies, right?
Cute and cuddly boyz!! -
Stevicus-2 — 18 years ago(February 29, 2008 04:15 PM)
I seem to recall the Vietnam War and Americans napalming women and children, what bravery.
I don't seem to remember a resounding US victory in that war, although I do remember the Americans scurrying on to helicopters as their embassy was finally stormed by the crowds.
America is now known as the worlds bully, what do you think is going on at Guatanamo Bay.
For an American to start a thread like this is laughable.
Well, to be honest, I was really just joking when I wrote that stanza from Johnny Horton's "The Battle of New Orleans."
But I do have to admit that the movie "In the Name of the Father" does rile up some rather raw emotions. It does cause people to get mad at the British legal system. Moreover, even if it may sound chauvinistic, an American might see a movie like this and be glad that we kicked the British out over 200 years ago. This is how threads like this get started on the IMDb message boards, and I agree that, in many ways, it
is
laughable.
But don't forget that Hollywood does a lot of trashing of America as well, so don't get the idea that it's all one-sided trashing of the whole world.
I don't know what Vietnam has to do with any of this discussion, though. The Americans were scurrying away on helicopters because they were ordered to do so by their civilian authorities. Even though the North Vietnamese broke the peace agreement, the Congress refused to allow funding for U.S. troops to return to enforce the peace terms. That wasn't a military defeat; that was a political forfeit.
Of course, there is a bit of a history behind that region and the war you're referring to, much of which involves Britain's other partner in crime, France. Anglo-French aggression in the early part of the 20th century indirectly led to the rise of both Hitler and Stalin, not to mention all the turmoil left over in the former colonial regions in Africa and South Asia. All because it was too much for Britain or France to accept peace without annexations or indemnities. President Wilson tried to get them to listen to reason, but they just wouldn't.
As a result, it was left to America to clean up all the mess that was left over. That's how we ended up in places like Vietnam and why our military is doing what it's doing in Guantanamo Bay.
Remember, we didn't ask for this, not really. We were just having a nice little time in our isolationist republic, when some other world powers decided they wanted to drag us into a war that we didn't want. Now that we're in it, you cry "foul"? Sorry, it doesn't work that way.
It wasn't our president at the Munich Conference. You asked for us. Now you've got us. -
Gareth2061 — 18 years ago(February 29, 2008 06:16 PM)
"As a result, it was left to America to clean up all the mess that was left over. That's how we ended up in places like Vietnam and why our military is doing what it's doing in Guantanamo Bay.
Remember, we didn't ask for this, not really. We were just having a nice little time in our isolationist republic, when some other world powers decided they wanted to drag us into a war that we didn't want. Now that we're in it, you cry "foul"? Sorry, it doesn't work that way."
What a load of piss.
"If I'm laughing at what I think I am, its very funny" -
Gareth2061 — 18 years ago(March 01, 2008 09:44 AM)
Please ignore my double post.
Now that Ive read your post again I guess it could be taken as a statement about the end of Americas isolationist role in the world. Although its not 100% clear and could be taken as chauvinistic rhetoric, if I'm wrong I apologise.
Still, its redundant to compare or blame the actions of now to those that happened 100 years ago. Looking at every other country in the world and saying none of them have had their hands clean at some point or another makes no sense. That was then, this is now, we should have learnt from the mistakes and we should know better.
"If I'm laughing at what I think I am, its very funny" -
The_Crimson_Pig — 18 years ago(March 01, 2008 10:09 AM)
Ignoring the evidence in this thread that's up to 200 years old, I think it's ultimately pointless for an American to even challenge the British. We're on your beep side, the OP is an arrogant moron that has probably taken more from the American economy than he has put back into it and contributed nothing to America's world dominance.
It's also ridiculous to take pride in winning a war 200 years ago. I don't take pride in how big the British empire was, I had beep all to do with it so I'm not going to brag about it.
America maybe on top or second, instead of arguing whether or not you can take on your allies why don't you worry about whether or not China or Russia could turn you into communists?
Last Film Seen: Gangs of New York -
mrh1000-1 — 18 years ago(March 02, 2008 11:57 AM)
America imprisons more people than any other nationso what? Are you suggesting we imprison lots of innocent people for kicks and giggles? Those numbers are meaningless in terms of this argument. Maybe your country doesn't put ENOUGH people in jail. Who knows? There's no way to prove it either way.
And we don't abide by the Geneva Convention? What are you basing that on? I suppose you've been present during the interrogation of a lot of war criminals held captive by the U.S. government. Calling something outdated doesn't mean it's not abided by it means we'll abide by it, but we're not happy about the way it is in its current incarnation. The Army has to treat men they capture well, i.e. not beating them or harming them, because officers get thrown in jail for not doing so. As for captured terrorists? They're given much more accomadating treatment than they deserve. Guantanamo Bay is not the Hilton, and it's not supposed to be. These men are not soldiers they're violent criminals who think they're soldiers.
I know the British didn't massacre Indians; most of the killing happened much earlier, when they first took over. Or do you think that the British army just showed up in India one day and said, "Guess what? We're taking over," and the Indians all unanimously stood up and said, "Okay, fine with us." Granted, the killing resulted from a more conventional war (i.e. the fighting between the British and the Mahratta confederacy), but it was still a lot of killing and war that happened because the British wanted to occupy India. But I digress.
Like I said, every nation on earth is guilty of some atrocities, so the fact that all the blame gets heaped on the U.S. is ludicrous. And I never said that Britain was an evil power, I said that it's not a shimmering example of perfection. No country is.
Firstly the Geneva Convention stipulates that prisoners have basic right such as the right to due process, the right to be treated humanely (free from torture) and other such rights. America has not adhered to any of these rights.
So called 'Waterboarding' is a case in point.
Secondly America does imprison more people than any other nation, and the appaling conditions in US Jails including the torture and death of inmates was recently highlighted in a British 'Award Winning' TV Documentary - 'Americas Brutal Prisons' (Channel 4 - Dispatches - UK).
A 10 minute Clip of the 1 Hour Documentary - 'Americas Brutal Prisons'.
Channel 4 - Torture
http://www.channel4.com/news/microsites/T/torture/cases.html
Article about the Documentary
http://www.frif.com/new2005/brut.html
There are lots of miscarriages of justice in America, and there have been numerous films and documentaries about them. However many states in America have the death penalty, so any miscarriage could have even more serious consequences.
Some interesting films about the US Justice System -
Muder on a Sunday Morning -
http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/murder_sunday/
Fourteen Days in May -
http://ftvdb.bfi.org.uk/sift/title/416995
The Hurricane - The Story of Boxer Rubin 'Hurricane' Carter' who was wrongly imprisoned -
http://www.imdb.com/board/10174856/
The Thin Blue Line (1988) - The true story of Randall Dale Adams, who was wrongly convicted of murdering Dallas, Texas police officer Robert Wood. -
http://www.imdb.com/board/10174856/
The Innocent Man - John Grisham's True Story of a US Miscarriage of Justice (which is to be made in to a film) -
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/09/books/09masl.html?fta=y
Also recent cases such as that of Kenny Richey which also highlighted inadequacies within the US Justice System -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7185719.stm
The fact that the system is also racially loaded, and that a black man is far more likely to be executed than a white man, for the same crime is also perverse to say the least.
Finally America seems to revel in cruel punishment bordering on torture, and not just in Guantanamo. Supermax prisons where inmates are given little human contact and eventually driven mad are one example. Even the methods employed in execution such as the electric chair are hardly civilised for a first world nation in the 21st Century. -
Stevicus-2 — 18 years ago(March 03, 2008 08:11 AM)
Nobody won the 1812 War.
It was a stupid war, like most wars and resulted in needless bloodshed, it's certainly nothing to take a pride in.
Well, the British did kidnap an estimated 10,000 American citizens and forced them to work on British ships (which was an existence not unlike that of a galley slave). In 1807, they fired on an American ship, the
Chesapeake
, right off the American coastline. The American public was angry enough to go to war right then and there, but Jefferson and the Congress decided to impose an embargo on Britain instead. Because of the incredible ease in smuggling things in and out of America, the embargo didn't work, but when it was found that the British were inciting the Native American tribes to attack American settlements and forts, that was the last straw.
The war was ended by treaty, and while it's true that nobody won the War of 1812, it did result in Britain leaving us alone. They didn't kidnap any more of our seamen after that.
The Battle of New Orleans was actually fought
after
the treaty was signed, so it had absolutely no bearing on the outcome of the war. But it did have significance in that it enhanced American prestige by winning such a lopsided battle, and it also emboldened the U.S. to start settling further West, as well as giving President Monroe the teeth to impose the Monroe Doctrine. We felt a bit more sure of ourselves and our national status, along with our sense of "Manifest Destiny."