Episodes that made you hate the characters?
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!!!deleted!!! (64820750) — 9 years ago(July 22, 2016 02:08 PM)
"Ross always wants Rachel more than any other woman. So he should never get involved with any other woman? He should just wait around and hope that someday Rachel may want him? And maybe she never will."
No, I never said that. Of course no one should wait around for someone when there's a chance to move on with someone else. However, Ross decided that he wanted to try and get back together with Rachel that night. He made the decision to go into her room and not Bonnie's. It's clear that he wasn't fully committed to Bonnie at that point. If he was committed to Bonnie, then he wouldn't have kissed Rachel that night, period. Sure, Ross could still have feelings for Rachel. But if he was committed to Bonnie, then he wouldn't have walked into Rachel's room that night. The feelings could still be there, but that doesn't mean he would act upon them.
"If you have never been in love, really in love, with someone who didn't want you, and that love continued after it was clear that he didn't want you, I don't think you can understand how Ross feels and the situation he is in."
That's false. That is actually what happened with me and my current boyfriend. He did dump me when I was madly in love with him. I was heartbroken, however, I didn't chase after him. We did end up getting back together within like a month, and not a couple of years like Ross and Rachel did. If my current boyfriend waited years to try to get back together with me, while single, I would say no. He had his chance years ago. There's no point in believing they would truly want you years later. Maybe they would, but I wouldn't.
"Okay, but that is you, and some other people. But there is another very common and very different situation and that is what we have here."
Yes, that is me. You asked my opinion on a certain scenario. So I gave you my answer. I'm not sure what you mean by this point?
Bottom line is that I stated it was right for Ross to dump Bonnie that night while intending to get back together with Rachel, (physically acting upon it). If he still had feelings for Rachel, yet wanted to make it work with Bonnie, then by all means, he should continue to date Bonnie. However, he tried to get back together with her by walking into her room. So therefore, it wouldn't have been fair for Bonnie. -
ppllkk — 9 years ago(July 22, 2016 08:48 PM)
haileybrae05
wrote:
No, I never said that. Of course no one should wait around for someone when there's a chance to move on with someone else. However, Ross decided that he wanted to try and get back together with Rachel that night.
Okay, so you agree with my third paragraph above.
Or maybe Ross can get involved with another woman when he has convinced himself that he's over Rachel, but as soon as he realizes that he isn't over Rachel, he has to dump the woman that he is with even though there's no prospect of Rachel?
Sure, Ross could still have feelings for Rachel. But if he was committed to Bonnie, then he wouldn't have walked into Rachel's room that night. The feelings could still be there, but that doesn't mean he would act upon them.
What you don't seem to understand is the strength of Ross's feelings for Rachel. Ross is fully, classically, compulsively in love with Rachel, and you don't seem to understand that.
This comes back to what you
didn't
say. Ross is never going to be fully committed to another woman at an early stage of a relationship if there is any possibility of Rachel. So, in practice Ross can't get involved with another woman according to you.
That's false. That is actually what happened with me and my current boyfriend. He did dump me when I was madly in love with him. I was heartbroken, however, I didn't chase after him. We did end up getting back together within like a month,
Ross tried to get back with Rachel, but she wouldn't budge.
Say it had been longer than a month, and you met another man that you really liked. With no prospect that the first man was going to want you again, what would you have done? Would you not have gotten involved with the second man that you do like a lot? If you got involved with the second man and then the first man tried to get back involved with you I'm assuming he's the one you really want what would you have done?
This is hypothetical for you, but this is Ross's situation.
So I gave you my answer. I'm not sure what you mean by this point?
I believe that a much more typical experience than yours is someone staying in love, but when it appears hopeless, getting involved with someone else. But a certain amount of the time, they would go back to the first person if that appeared possible. Over a period of time, they may develop a relationship with the second person and not want to go back to the first.
Most relationships at that age do not involve total commitment. People usually go through a number of relationships before they find the one that they want.
Well, Ross knows which one he wants, but she does not want him. So he moves on, and then it does appear that maybe Rachel does want him. You seem to be saying that Ross should've broken up with Bonnie
before
he had any idea if he could get back with Rachel. Very honorable, but almost no one would do that.
I believe that Ross's experience is much common than yours.
I really think you just don't understand how powerful a force romantic love can be particularly when it is unrequited. I strongly encourage you to watch Helen Fisher's TED Talk "The brain in love" on the chemistry of love. You can watch it in 16 minutes or you can read it more quickly. After the introduction, this is hard science what you can measure not fluff.
https://www.ted.com/talks/helen_fisher_studies_the_brain_in_love?language=en
She is a highly respected biological anthropologist who teaches at Rutgers. To whet your interest:
So, several years ago, I decided to look into the brain and study this madness. Our first study of people who were happily in love has been widely publicized, so I'm only going to say a very little about it. We found activity in a tiny, little factory near the base of the brain called the ventral tegmental area. We found activity in some cells called the A10 cells, cells that actually make dopamine, a natural stimulant, and spray it to many brain regions. Indeed, this part, the VTA, is part of the brain's reward system. It's way below your cognitive thinking process. It's below your emotions. It's part of what we call the reptilian core of the brain, associated with wanting, with motivation, with focus and with craving.In fact, the same brain region where we found activity becomes active also when you feel the rush of cocaine.
But romantic love is much more than a cocaine high at least you come down from cocaine. Romantic love is an obsession. It possesses you. You lose your sense of self. You can't stop thinking about another human being. Somebody is camping in your head.
Rachel is camping out in Ross's head, and there is nothing that he can do about it. -
!!!deleted!!! (64820750) — 9 years ago(July 22, 2016 10:43 PM)
You can still have feelings for someone but choose to move on from them. You act as if that's impossible for Ross, and it's not. He just chooses to not truly move on from Rachel. Ever. If he really wanted to get over her, he'd cut her out of his life completely.
I don't understand why you feel the need to tell people what they're thinking when you have no idea who I am. You've said "you don't seem to understand" to me numerous times on these posts when you're the one that comes up with random scenarios that don't have anything to do with my original comment.
My original comment only consisted of me saying that I felt Ross was right to dump Bonnie before attempting to get back together with Rachel. That's it.
Then you randomly came up with the idea that I was saying that Ross should wait around for Rachel and I don't know how you got that notion. So then you asked me if I think he should wait around for Rachel and not try to move on?uhhhhh how did you get that from what I was saying? I feel like you invent arguments and ways for you to feel superior than others by saying "you don't seem to understand." No, I understand perfectly. Thanks. I'm not stupid. Just because I don't agree with you, doesn't mean that I "don't understand."
Anyways, you're ignored now because you're extremely annoying about not letting people express their opinions on topics that are RELEVANT to the situation. Also, your responses are way too long. Buh bye. -
ppllkk — 9 years ago(July 23, 2016 05:57 AM)
haileybrae05
wrote:
You can still have feelings for someone but choose to move on from them.
You can, some of time, but some of the time there is no way to get that person out of your head.
You act as if that's impossible for Ross, and it's not.
It would be hard for Ross under any circumstances, but it is impossible for Ross in large part because Rachel won't let him go. She periodically give him hope that she will get back with him.
His feelings for Rachel go back to high school, and she was his first love. Such feelings always have special power.
He ran into Rachel again when he was at his most vulnerable, right after Carol had left him.
Because Rachel is his sister's roommate, he sees her all the time.
After they broke up, Rachel occasionally encourages him and always leaves him with a little hope.
That would not always produce compulsive love, but in this case it does.
He just chooses to not truly move on from Rachel. Ever. If he really wanted to get over her, he'd cut her out of his life completely.
If you think that moving on from Rachel is simply a matter of choice, you have not had an experience that I believe a very large majority of people have had.
There is no known way to simply get out of your head someone who is stuck there. Anger helps, but Ross does not get as angry at Rachel as he should. Getting involved with someone else is the most successful technique, but when Ross does that, Rachel indicates that she may be available.
You just haven't had the sort of experience of unrequited love that Ross has, and so you don't understand it. Indeed, it doesn't make any sense, but it is quite real.
It does not matter to me whether you see this or not. -
ppllkk — 9 years ago(July 23, 2016 06:03 AM)
haileybrae05
wrote:
My original comment only consisted of me saying that I felt Ross was right to dump Bonnie before attempting to get back together with Rachel. That's it.
Then you randomly came up with the idea that I was saying that Ross should wait around for Rachel and I don't know how you got that notion.
Because it is the clear implication of your belief that Ross should breakup Bonnie before trying to get back with Rachel.
Because Ross is always going to want Rachel more than any new woman that he meets.
The argument was reductio ad absurdum, but that does not seem to have come across to you. -
!!!deleted!!! (64820750) — 9 years ago(July 22, 2016 12:05 PM)
"But if there was one man that you wanted more than any other man and he had dumped you would you break up with your boyfriend with whom you are quite happy because you thought that it was possible that you could get back with that man?"
I have only ever had 1 boyfriend in my life (that I'm still with).
But if I did have someone before him, then I wouldn't lose a great thing that I have currently just for "what if?." especially if HE had dumped ME.
I'm the type of person to believe that exes are exes for a reason. When people get married to their exes, then that's great for them! It just means they were meant to be. But I just feel that if you've been broken up for a while, (like Ross and Rachel were) then I would have a hard time wanting to be with someone that I had a history with a long time ago. Sure, I could still have feelings for them. But they probably wouldn't be the same as how they were before. It's a "love" feeling, but not an "in love" feeling like I have currently. If someone were to dump me, then I don't chase after them. They left me, so it wasn't meant to be.
I feel like people change after a while and you could be different and want different things. It's different for Ross and Rachel because they were friends the whole time after they broke up so they still knew each other.
But for me, personally, I wouldn't leave someone that I have a great thing with, just for what if? A what if that happened years ago that left me. -
Moonlighty — 9 years ago(July 22, 2016 11:47 AM)
I agree, it wouldn't have been fair to Bonnie since obviously Ross wasn't that interested in her if he was willing to jump ship. No one wants to be the one someone is with until someone better comes along. Obviously if Bonnie and Ross aren't meant to be, she should have the chance to move onto a guy who's really into her.
Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that I'll be over here looking through your stuff.
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ppllkk — 9 years ago(July 22, 2016 10:16 AM)
For me, Ross's low point was trying with great sincerity to persuade Emily to move to New York when he wasn't really serious about giving up Rachel.
Ross is a sincere person, and he projects sincerity, probably because he believed that Emily was the one that he loves and the one that he wants to be married to. But he should have known that that was not the case. He should've looked at what happened in London and realized that he really didn't want to give up Rachel and wasn't going to do so.
I believe he only understands that consciously in the final telephone conversation at the very last minute. He finally realizes that he is simply not able to give up seeing Rachel.
But Ross is not dumb, and he should have understood the situation earlier. Instead, he led Emily on for an extended period of time and then bailed at the last minute.
This is a very human way to behave, and I'm not saying that I necessarily blame Ross, but Ross's lack of self understanding is Ross at his worst.
There are some ironies here. Ross refused to "trust" Rachel over Mark. He was, of course, right.
But Ross expects Emily to "trust" him over Rachel which she could not possibly do.
I believe that part of what is going on in the Mark episode is that Rachel wants to have her cake and eat it too. She wants to play with Mark I don't mean sex as if she were a single, but she wants to be in a relationship with Ross.
Here, Ross also wants to have his cake and eat it too. He wants to be in a serious relationship with Emily, but he wants to continue seeing Rachel is if he were a single.
The major thing that I see that Ross and Rachel have in common is a lack of self understanding. -
Stratego — 9 years ago(July 26, 2016 02:43 PM)
Good god, why do you need to turn this into another Rachel vs. Ross argument? It's simply that poster's opinion, your opinion isn't fact. I also happen to think that Rachel should've taken her responsibility in the break-up, so there you go!
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imaneassi — 9 years ago(July 26, 2016 06:25 PM)
Exactly, not only she did nothing to make him jealous but she reassured him friom the moment she told him about the possible new job interview and he chose to ignore all the times she reassured him and to distust her with no reason
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hamsa-43622 — 9 years ago(August 05, 2016 04:10 PM)
Completely agree about everyone else, but don't you think Chandler WAS wrong in kissing Joey's girlfriend? Whether Joey was into Kathy or not isn't the question, it's a matter of principle - you make it sound like Chandler wasn't to blame because Joey didn't really like Kathy, on the other hand, had he been in love with her, it would have been a big deal.
Take Joey's behavior when he fell in love with Rachel - he was most concerned about Ross and how he would be affected, he spoke to Ross first, and even considered approaching Rachel only after Ross said he was fine with it. That sounds like a stand-up guy to me. He isn't making a big deal about Chandler kissing Kathy - the issue is Chandler going behind Joey's back when, as Ross says, he would have gladly stepped aside had Chandler just been honest with him. -
ppllkk — 9 years ago(August 05, 2016 08:46 PM)
hamsa-43622
wrote:
but don't you think Chandler WAS wrong in kissing Joey's girlfriend?
Please don't romanticize this stuff about honor among young men trying to get laid or find a girlfriend.
No, Chandler wasn't wrong. He did not come on to Kathy. You can argue that she sort of came on to him, but basically it was quite mutual. It was something that just happened and came out of their mutual attraction.
They have sincere feelings for each other. Joey does not have any sort of sincere feelings toward Kathy. He has belatedly decided that he prefers her to the other woman that he is dating but that's all.
Sincere feelings trump all that crap that Joey gave Chandler, and if Joey weren't such a dumb ass, he would've understood that. Chandler was not going behind Joey's back. He did not make a pass at Kathy. It just happened while Joey was off with another woman.
If you go back and watch the episode again, or read the transcript, it is clear why Chandler could not reasonably be expected to ask Joey first.
https://xkcd.com/1357/ -
ppllkk — 9 years ago(August 07, 2016 07:06 AM)
P. S.
hamsa-43622
wrote:
on the other hand, had he been in love with her, it would have been a big deal.
Yes, it would've been, but not because of some semi-mythical man code crap.
It would've been a big deal because he had hurt his friend.
Take Joey's behavior when he fell in love with Rachel -
The situation is completely different. Joey knows that Ross has been in love with Rachel for 10 years. He knows, or should know most humans would know, but it's hard to say about Joey that Ross, whatever he may say, is not going to be at all comfortable with Joey sleeping with Rachel. So he does what he can to make the situation legitimate. -
ppllkk — 9 years ago(August 08, 2016 01:32 PM)
Ah
Manning29
. Your history shows exactly 3 posts in the last four months and all of them in the last five hours.
Curiously, I already have you on ignore which strongly suggests to me that you had your posting history blanked when you were using a different username.
You're probably kjc. -
forumulaa — 9 years ago(October 06, 2016 01:51 PM)
Agree with you for the most part except for in the case of Joey and Chandler. Chandler did wrong Joey by kissing his current gf, which was not okay even if he was in love with her. The box episode was pretty fair, and remember that in the end Joey does tell him to go and get her.
Infact, Chandler and Joey's is one of the most untainted and pure friendships on tv, without being too fairy-tale perfect. Also, it was hard for me to hate either of them(maybe joey when he got together with Rachel).
As far as Monica is concerned, I could write a 36 page document on all the episodes which made me hate her - starting with her dating Richard's son and ending with the one in which she says weddings are more important than some "stupid kids".