Hated her so much throughout. Have you lot come across any men/women like her?
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robert3750 — 11 years ago(March 28, 2015 01:53 AM)
What point are you trying to make? That Sam has his shallow pathetic traits, therefore Ginger isn't pathetic? And I'd hardly call the Lester-Ginger relationship a loving one. He exploits her for all she's worth. Again, that doesn't make her any less pathetic. In fact, it makes her MORE pathetic.
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cookiela2001 — 11 years ago(March 28, 2015 08:53 AM)
What point are you trying to make? That Sam has his shallow pathetic traits, therefore Ginger isn't pathetic? And I'd hardly call the Lester-Ginger relationship a loving one. He exploits her for all she's worth. Again, that doesn't make her any less pathetic. In fact, it makes her MORE pathetic.
Ginger is definitely pathetic. But we usually feel sympathy for broken, pathetic people rather than revile or attack them.
I addressed a specific claim: Ginger does not just care about herself.
And it just always disgusts me when men will dump on a female character while giving the male star a pass. Ginger is using Sam; He basically offered her a job with a severance package (which he incidentally reneged on.) But he is using her as well, and the OP doesn't acknowledge that to put it in perspective.
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robert3750 — 11 years ago(March 28, 2015 09:24 AM)
It seems quite a stretch on your part to imply that failure to give equal time to reviling male characters equates to some kind of misogynistic tendency. Its no such thing. Its quite apparent to me that the comment about Ginger was made because shes supposedly a desirable woman. She isnt, because no man wants a leech. No one, however, assumes a desire to be like Sam, Nicky, or Lester. That goes without saying.
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cookiela2001 — 11 years ago(March 28, 2015 11:50 AM)
But you're saying she deserved to be DEAD?? That's pretty violent.
And it's not like Ginger didn't start off or even retain some decent qualities, as well. As I said, she sincerely cared for and pitied Lester (even if it was misplaced), and she ultimately remained loyal to Sam when she was arrested at the end, by not ratting him out to the authorities.
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robert3750 — 11 years ago(March 28, 2015 01:04 PM)
Where did I say anything about "deserving"? As Clint Eastwood said in Unforgiven, deserve's got nothing to do with it. She died as the result of her idiotic choices. Actions have consequences. I don't have much sympathy for people who make such choices. And just to satisfy your apparent zeal for "fairness", I felt no sympathy for Nicky either.
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cookiela2001 — 11 years ago(March 28, 2015 01:08 PM)
Sat March 28 2015 13:04:20
Where did I say anything about "deserving"?
In this same thread:
Wed Dec 17 2014 21:25:29
Yes, I will criticize her. She wound up where she deserved to bedead.
Emotionally, I have sympathy for both Ginger and Sam. as they both suffer from unrequited love. (She did tie up her daughter which was dangerous and NOT okay, obviouslybut at least she was presumably under the influence.)
Nicky, not so much. He's a total pig and a killerthough one could argue he's loyal when he tries to patch things up between Sam and his wife when she's in L.A. (It's also probable he just does that because it's in his best interest.)
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robert3750 — 11 years ago(March 28, 2015 01:46 PM)
Okay, I should have said "as a consequence of her actions". The point remains that she chose to do the things she did, and she wound up paying the price for those choices, just as Nicky did. I say to hell with both of them.
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cookiela2001 — 11 years ago(March 28, 2015 02:20 PM)
Awwwwww.you're so cruel!
Yes, I know Ginger's a trial and she did spiral into some really really bad choices, and I agree addicts are responsible for their own actions. But she was genuinely hurting inside, at least, and devastated about someone she loved (Lester) getting hurt. That seems to be what triggers her real slide into using Sam's painkillers.
In contrast, Nicky beat someone for two days then put their head in a vice! At least our little Ginger, even in her worst moments, didn't do anything like THAT!
On another note.how scummy (if at all) is Sam? You could say he's leaching off the entire population, as he knows they'll lose in his casino.but that's our American way : ) Does he do anything really bad in the movie, aside from break his promise to Ginger to let her go and take care of her financially if the marriage doesn't work out? (It's such a long movie and Sam's in so much of it, I can't remember everything he did.) (Oh God.is he the one who spits in the cop's sandwich?? I can't even watch that scene.the thought alone makes me hurl.)
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robert3750 — 11 years ago(March 28, 2015 03:09 PM)
As Joe Friday used to say, "just the facts". You could also say that Nicky was a loving father (Ginger was a godawful mother), but that mitigates nothing. Sam wasn't the one who spit in the sandwich. I think he really wanted to believe that he could have a good loving marriage with Ginger, but he was deluding himself. He also paid for his choices. I've always thought that people who gamble at casinos are, to put it bluntly, rather dumb, because the whole point of the business is to MAKE money, not LOSE money to the suckers.
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JurijFedorov — 10 years ago(May 01, 2015 09:51 AM)
She tied her daughter to the bed. She was taking drugs instead of being a mother and was only sober 2 hours a day. She rather be with an beep who shouted at her daughter instead of a stable guy. She cheated on her husband and stole his money. She spend 2 millions in a few months on drugs and did not care about her daughter. She tried to get her husband killed. I don't care about what the other guys did, she was an awful human being - the worst in the movie if you ask me. She was a thief and crazy before she was convinced to marry a rich guy. Why? Because she did everything her pimp told her even getting married or stealing money. Who are you to judge her? Give me a break. An beep is an beep no matter what gender or race.
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peculiar-1 — 10 years ago(August 30, 2015 07:36 PM)
Hated her so much throughout. Have you lot come across any men/women like her?
Unfortunately so, she's exactly like this person I came across in later life called my mother. The main difference being that my mother is one of those who never managed to bag the successful man, and has only a tiny portion of Ginger's charisma.
After she had disappeared without any word for 7 years I managed to contact her to let her know my father had passed. Her first concern was wanting me to give her my father's TV set (because she thought it was the most valuable thing of his she could get) and made this ridiculous story up that she had in fact bought it herself.
I think that story summarises just how selfish sufferers of histrionic personality disorder can be. -
cpoet — 10 years ago(September 13, 2015 02:36 PM)
I'm usually predisposed toward taking the woman's side, but the saying goes: "marry for money and you earn every cent of it."
Well, Ginger didn't want to do her job.
She wanted all the money and jewelry and furs and perks and benefits and status and prestige of the position, but she didn't want to put in the work.
She kept saying "We had a deal! We had deal!" and she was right, but her part of that deal was not just "produce a baby and keep your looks up and then you can have carte blanche to do anything you wantdrugs, affairs, supporting another man on her husband's dime, tying her kid to the bed so she could go out, etc.
I'm actually quite surprised to see so much sympathy for her here. Yes, she had a horrible beginning, but golden opportunities fell into her lapincluding divorce from Sam, with a huge payoutand she wasted it all.