Episodes where ray was right and Debra was wrong
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DanaShelbyChancey — 9 years ago(May 10, 2016 10:06 AM)
But does it mean I am wrong? What I ultimately took from the experience, is that there are ways you treat someone you care about. This ex-dating guy obviously didn't care about me, so he treated me this way. I care for, for example, my husband, so I would never treat him shabbily, such as leaving without him to an event.
We differ, in that you would feel justified in treating someone crappy, if you felt they did it first, while I don't go by that. -
JosephASpadaro — 9 years ago(May 10, 2016 10:34 AM)
Biases are exactly that biases.
So, you are biased in favor of Debra and against Ray.
You are very strong in your argument against Ray, but very quiet to criticize Debra.
Biases generally are "wrong", yes, in that they are not a good basis for a rational, objective, and impartial analysis.
In fact, "bias" and "impartial" are a contradiction. -
DanaShelbyChancey — 9 years ago(May 10, 2016 10:42 AM)
I was really mad once, at my sister in law, the whole family was going to dinner at this restaurant, we had reservations and had agreed to meet at mother in law's house at 6.
Sis in law & her hub waltz in a half hour late, and she righteously states that she had to give the kids dinner. I felt like, she has been giving the kids dinner for years, she hasn't got it timed out yet? And, why not give the kids something super fast like McDonalds for one night?
So I do think it is inconsiderate. And you did not answer when I asked, if what Ray did to Debra, is an acceptable way to treat your spouse. And would you do it, and feel you were correct in doing it? -
JosephASpadaro — 9 years ago(May 10, 2016 10:54 AM)
And you did not answer when I asked, if what Ray did to Debra, is an acceptable way to treat your spouse. And would you do it, and feel you were correct in doing it?
Is it acceptable? Yes. Not ideal, but definitely acceptable.
Would I do it? Yes. Would I feel "correct"? Yes.
This is the problem:
Ray and Debra entered into an agreement.
The agreement was basically this:
"We will both be ready at 6:00 PM and we will leave at 6:00 PM. Each of us agrees to this. And each of us agrees to let the other be free to leave at 6:00 PM if the other person is not in fact ready to leave at that agreed time." (or some such).
Ray made this promise and fulfilled his end and stuck to it.
Debra wanted the promise to be: "I will be ready if I am ready. I will be ready whenever I am ready. I will agree to be ready for 6:00 PM only if I am ready for 6:00 PM."
So, she wanted to eat her cake and have it, too.
She thinks the world revolves around her. And God forbid her one hair that was out of place on Ray's big night.
Take the entire scene and make one change.
Let's say that they had to be ready at precisely 6:00 PM to get on a plane. If they were not ready, the plane would leave without them at 6:01 PM. And they were heading to some extremely important event on this plane.
Should Ray have left at 6:00 PM or waited for Debra who was late?
It's the same idea.
It's important to Debra if and only if it's important to Debra.
If she were in my "plane" scenario and it were important to her she would: (A) make sure that she was ready on time; and (B) not worry about that last hair that was out of place.
She had no perspective. Or, rather, her perspective was self-involved, self-centered, and narcissistic.
In Debra's mind, the agreement was: "I am giving you permission to leave without me if I am late. But, if you leave without me because I am late, I will be angry."
In other words, totally self-serving, totally contradictory, totally irrational. And totally based on emotions, not rationality.
In other words, typical "woman" stuff.
She wanted to stack the deck so that she would win no matter what and Ray would lose no matter what.
In other words, Ray had to make promises and keep them, but she did not.
Cuz yeah that's fair and reasonable. -
jgrv-1 — 9 years ago(May 10, 2016 03:08 PM)
Thank you, Joseph.
"Lateness" is the one episode where I am 100% on Ray's side. And it really pisses me off that the writers "let" Debra win in the end. Horrible, horrible, horrible.
If you love someone, you don't constantly keep him/her waiting and make him/her late, especially for his/her big night. How arrogant and self-centered can you get?
If I were Ray, not only would I have left without Debra, I would've made her sleep on the couch for a week. -
JosephASpadaro — 9 years ago(May 10, 2016 09:01 PM)
Yes! You're welcome.
If I were Ray, not only would I have left without Debra, I would've made her sleep on the couch for a week.
or, better yet, make her sleep across the street at Frank's and Marie's for the week
Ha! Ha! -
Wildstyle26 — 9 years ago(May 09, 2016 12:29 PM)
But you can argue if your spouse cares about the event you're going to, and being with you, shouldn't they make an effort to actually be ready on time, rather than having you sit around waiting on them when you'd like to be there early, or on time?
Something similar happened in
Friends
. Ross had a big night for his job. He wanted to leave in 30 min. But everyone was dragging around. Rachel, his girlfriend had her hair and make-up done, but then had to go through multiple outfits and decide what to wear.
Finally Ross snapped at her and told her he didn't care what she wore, or what she thought made her look fat, just get in her room, and put on something. Then she got an attitude, changed into sweats and decided to stay home.
People argued he shouldn't have snapped because she was trying to look good for his big night. But there's argument if she really cared about his night, she should have had clothes ready a day or so in advance, if it was gonna take her ages to decide on something.
So the one dragging around seems to be the more selfish, than the one who got fed up and left. The tardy one had the same amount of time as the other to be ready. Apparently they care little enough about things to start getting ready around the last min. -
Wildstyle26 — 9 years ago(May 10, 2016 02:28 PM)
Another one. It's a small one.
But the episode in
Season 1. The Game
.
It's storming out, Ray just put Michael to sleep and sits to watch tv. Debra says Ray could at least look at her before 3 hours of tv. The tv goes out, and Debra wants to sit and talk and gets offended when Ray doesn't want to. So he agrees, and she turns to him and says
"So, go ahead."
And I agree with his response.
No, no. This is what you always do. You say "let's talk", and then you throw it to me. You say "let's talk", then you should have topics ready.
She's the one who wanted to sit and talk, but it's on Ray to start up the conversation. -
Candyhearts27 — 9 years ago(May 10, 2016 05:27 PM)
As far as Lateness goes, I think that was both their faults. Yes, it was wrong of Ray to leave, but it was also wrong for Debra to take a long time. Ray even said the night before that he feels she doesn't care about him when she does this. Debra looked really nice, and I didn't see anything wrong with her hair. Had Ray waited and not left, then he would be in the right. Debra could say, "It's not my fault the curling iron got stuck," and Ray could say, "Actually, it is!" But, no, he did the wrong thing. They both did. I felt for Ray in this episode, but I don't agree with him leaving without her. I would say it's 70% her fault, and 30% his.
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SkiesAreBlue — 9 years ago(May 10, 2016 08:02 PM)
I agree with you. In another post I commented that rather than yell at her from the bottom of the stairs, he could have gone up and found what was wrong. He didn't hear an answer and that would have made me concerned. Debra could have unplugged the hair tongs and come down to ask for help. But neither would have been funny for the show. Poor Ray, crucified again
SkiesAreBlue -
jptf2 — 9 years ago(May 10, 2016 09:08 PM)
I'll just list a few people haven't mentioned:
The Gift: Ray knew his father better than Debra and was correct that the fish dying reminding him of death was not what he was upset about.
Recovering Pessimist: Forced optimism never got anyone anywhere.
The Children's Book: Debra tries to write it herself but gives up, Ray finishes it for her, she gets pissed off, re-writes what he wrote, and then when Ally liked Ray's better, he decided to lie to her because he didn't want to hurt her feelings. What's she so pissed off about?
Let's Fix Robert: Apparently Ray is the bad guy for wanting to tell Robert the truth about their manipulation.
Christmas Present: This backfired on Ray, but he cleverly unpacked Debra's ulterior motives and hypocrisy. She
likes
having things to complain about so she can make the marriage seem totally unbalanced.
Boob Job: How DARE he like his wife's boob job. -
EnnJaySee — 9 years ago(May 12, 2016 08:17 AM)
Lol at some people here. Those who think he was right to leave her behind are wrong. You're wrong. That is not a healthy relationship, that's a cancerous one. That's a relationship doomed to failure the second you leave your other half behind. That is a major mistake, it's hurtful, it's wrong. Being late in getting ready is just annoying, it's an irritation, it's not terminal. Women are well known to hardly be on time, this is well known to all men. We put up with it. Men are forever waiting on their wives lol my dad knows all too well what that's like but he would never leave my mum behind. That's unhealthy and people who think it's alright to leave them behind are doomed to end up alone. Yes the woman should be ready, it's a pain in the ass when they aren't but it's nothing compared to your other half ditching you.
Goodbye.
#VivaLaBull - "Go away. You aren't even American"