Bills daughter is the key to this movie
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christomacin — 9 years ago(May 20, 2016 06:29 AM)
Uh you don't answer a question with a question.
"I just did. "Just because you are a smart ass, doesn't make you very smart, as duly noted.
Some of the best answers are questions. You'll discover that when you get a bit older.
You made the assertion, therefore you are expected to support it. I have no evidence either way, thus I wanted to know yours.
This is a work of art we're talking about, not a mathematical equation. What sort of "evidence" (other than circumstantial) do you want, or expect from an artist, especially one of the stature of Kubrick?
I did support itNo you didn't. So they were in some costume shop, big deal. What the heck is a high end costume shop? He paid more money for the costumes because of the inconvenience of waking the guy at 1:00am for Pete's sake.
Yes, and Milich wasn't shy about reminding Bill about agreeing to pay more money "for his trouble" the day later. Much like Milich, we see Bill wheeling and dealing to get what he wants by flashing cash and showing his status symbol (the doctor certificate). The difference between Bill and Milich is that Bill still has some limits.
Just because some guy is wearing a tie, does not equate to being rich or well off, that tells me that you are young or poor and uneducated (or perhaps both).
The following day Bill finds out Milich not only didn't call the police on the two guys but actually allowed them to have their way with his daughter, because "we came to some other arrangement". What sort of arrangement would that be, do you suppose, if not financial? Must have been a pretty decent amount, seeing as he seemed to be doing fairly well and considering what he was selling. Milich, if anything, seemed to be a guy who had a pretty good idea of the value of money, and how to extract it from people. You're making Milich out to be some foolhardy idiot. He certainly would work up the market price of his daughter, knowing full well the premium he could command from some Japanese perverts for a fresh, blonde, blue-eyed white girl. Besides, the race of the two gents was very deliberately chosen by Kubrick, I believe, as Japanese do have culturally seem to have a fascination with pre-pubescent girls.
Oh well. This conversation now bores me.
And your denseness amuses me. Must you have everything spelled out for you in a movie? Is there no reading between the lines for you? -
Xav6101 — 9 years ago(May 22, 2016 02:27 AM)
- Ladies, where exactly are we going?
Exactly?
Where the rainbow ends. - Where the rainbow ends?
Don't you want to go where the rainbow ends? - Now that depends where that is.
Well, let's find out.
[At Rainbow Fashions]
So what color cloak?
Red, brown, red? - Black.
The good doctor wouldn't like something more colorful?
-I don't think so.
Clowns,
officers
, pirates?
-No, just the tux, the black cloak
With a hood and a mask.
May I take your coat?
https://merovee.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/rainbow2.jpg
The amount of coincidences conveys a feeling of dealing with a mental construction rather than experiencing reality, doesn't it?
Credo quia absurdum
- Ladies, where exactly are we going?
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Barbed_Wire_Strawberry — 9 years ago(May 22, 2016 07:13 AM)
Reality is a mental construction - that is the horrifying nature of 'reality' as human beings - we will never know for sure and we have only our little comforts to console us.
Buy The Ticket, Take The Ride -
keykeyx100000 — 9 years ago(May 28, 2016 10:46 PM)
- Helena was checking with her parents every minute or so when they entered the store. In the final scene, there almost seems to be strain to emphasize how much time goes by between the 5minute conversation/credits and no Helena saying "Look, mommy!"
In fact, that was THE MOST disturbing and telling point for me.
I was half expecting Nicole to turn and say "Helena?" jut to check with her, but we weren't even granted that. Scary!
- Helena was checking with her parents every minute or so when they entered the store. In the final scene, there almost seems to be strain to emphasize how much time goes by between the 5minute conversation/credits and no Helena saying "Look, mommy!"
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demenu — 9 years ago(May 22, 2016 03:16 AM)
http://jabajabba.com/jabajabba/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/pic81.jpg
Helena in a long black cloak standing next to the "Magic Circle" board game. -
Barbed_Wire_Strawberry — 9 years ago(May 23, 2016 05:57 AM)
Bill already made the decision to involve his wife and daughter in potential harm - all for his silly ego. They are on the knife's edge at the end of the film, and from then on (too many secrets/too far under thumb).
Buy The Ticket, Take The Ride -
tieman64 — 9 years ago(May 23, 2016 05:25 PM)
Regarding Helena and her possible abduction, I'm re-pasting this from elsewhere:
We see similar scenes and themes in "Spartacus" (young women captured and forced into sex) and "Lolita" (a girl literally stollen twice by older men).
Allusions to psychosexual violence toward children are all over "The Shining" and "Full Metal Jacket" as well, the allusions ranging from subtle to overt (eg - "The Shining's" "Summer of 42" segment, a film aobut a woman's sexual relationship with an underage boy, or "Full Metal Jacket's" climax, in which the Marines suggestively rock their crotches over the dying corpse of a girl)
Here's every scene with Bill and Alice's daughter, Helena:- Helena's first seen wearing angel wings and drawing on a sketchpad. On this sketchpad is a large red figure and a small figure beside it. During this scene, Alice says that she will "leave the number on the fridge.
- Helena mentions wanting to stay up to watch the Nutcracker. In the original Nutcracker story, a young girl is whisked away by a Nutcracker, who eventually transforms into a Prince. This Prince takes the girl to the Magical Kingdom of Dolls. In Greek mythology, a ten year old Helen of Troy is likewise abducted by a prince.
- Seconds before this moment, Bill walks beside a tennis racket with the word Prince boldly displayed. In the next scene, Ziegler informs us of his tennis injuries.
- Ziegler also informs us that his wife's name is Illona, a variant of Helen or Helena.
- Helena is next seen sitting in the family kitchen. The Fright Before Christmas is playing on Tv, a cartoon about a Tazmanian Devil who masquerades as Santa. How the Grinch Stole Christmas is at Helena's side. A sketch of a creepy red figure is above the TV.
- Scenes of Helena having her hair brushed, and brushing her teeth, are intercut with Bill examining patients. Framed by red curtains, these scenes recall Alice disrobing at the start of the film, which itself recalls the images of disrobing women at the Somerton Mansion. Scenes of Helena brushing her teeth, intercut with Bill's sterile workplace, evoke the Doctor's visit in The Shining, which occurred after Danny brushed his teeth. In that scene, in which Danny and his mother evade their father's violent history of abuse, Danny talks about a boy who lives in his mouth.
- Helena is seen wrapping presents. That's a good choice, her mother says. They're wrapping a Van Gogh themed gift. In the previous kitchen scene, Van Gogh's sunflowers were pinned to a wall.
- Helena's reading in her bedroom, beside a lamp adorned with clowns juggling balls. She's reading a poem called The Shadow:
I have a little shadow that goes in and out with me,
And what can be the use of him is more than I can see.
He is very, very like me, from the heels up to the head;
And I see him jump before me, when I jump into my bed.
The funniest thing about him is the way he likes to grow-
Not at all like proper children, which is always very slow;
For he sometimes shoots up taller like an india-rubber ball,
And he sometimes gets so little that there's none of him at all.
He hasn't got a notion of how children ought to play,
And can only make a fool of me in every sort of way.
He stays so close beside me, he's a coward you can see;
I'd think shame to stick to nursie as that shadow sticks to me!
The poem offer's a myriad of readings: a literal shadow, The Shadow (in the Freudian sense) or perhaps A Shadow (a stalker or monster). - Helena's next seen asleep, a giant white teddy bear overlooking her bed. Two surreal paintings are over her head, one seemingly displaying the word sex, the other with phallic looking imagery. ( http://postimg.org/image/uw5gmxi91/ )
- Bill watches as Helena does math homework in the family kitchen. She tells her father that she wants a puppy. This cute request acquires threatening overtones when Helena states that this puppy can also double as a watch dog.
- Whilst doing her math, Helena speaks of Joe and Mike, the former having 2 dollars 50, the latter 1 dollar 75. Echoing the that's a good choice scene earlier, Helena wonders how much more money Joe has than Mike. Whilst Helena ponders this, Bill recalls his wife talking about everyone beep one another, the scene playing like a fusion of mate selection and economics. On the fridge behind Bill is a sketch of Red Cloak a mysterious character seen earlier below which the word FISHY is spelt phonetically with fridge magnets.
- Whilst doing her math homework, Helena is beside a math book called CARLOS (the aspect ratios of all new dvds cut this off). Carl was the name of the math professor we saw earlier in the film. Bill will make a telephone call in the very next scene, which Carl answers. Later Helena is seen beside toy dolls called Carlotta Junior.
- Helena is at a toy store. A figure in red makes hand gestures. Enchanting onlookers, this figure's actions resemble Red Cloak's at the Somerton Mansion. The store layout itself r
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tieman64 — 9 years ago(May 23, 2016 05:58 PM)
17 points is nothing. I wrote a 400 point United Nations presentation on how cyanobacteria cells, properly implemented, outperform perovskite photovoltaics. The EU Commissioner for Energy ridiculed me for omitting comparative lifespan data with bioengineered algae biogels, so I referred him to page 18 and called his mother a whore.
mic drop -
SavageBeauty — 9 years ago(May 24, 2016 09:50 AM)
Don't forget the board game in the toy store called 'The Magic Circle' (not a real game FYI, was created just for the movie).
Magical circle yes, just like the ritual at Somerton. Looks similar to the Circle of Solomon or the Seal of Solomon. Also known as the Ritual Circle. In the occult a circle always represents a boundary of power. If you see a symbol enclosed in a circle, it is often a symbol of the occult.
But, this magic circle can also be intended for protection from evil, so it's still left open to any/all viewer interpretation.
A picture of the box cover of this game
http://media.tumblr.com/219d667fe30c6571b861b420ef835127/tumblr_inline_n1heqwU9VF1qfo9ju.jpg
2. Helena mentions wanting to stay up to watch the Nutcracker. In the original Nutcracker story, a young girl is whisked away by a Nutcracker, who eventually transforms into a Prince. This Prince takes the girl to the Magical Kingdom of Dolls.
The Nutcracker is perhaps the perfect mirror story for Eyes Wide Shut. Although the story varies slightly depending on the performance. I watch it every Christmas.
"E.T.A. Hoffman wrote the famous ballet of the nutcracker, which was first performed in 1892. However, the story was considered to be too morbid for kids and thus, Alexander Dumas Pere rewrote it to infuse more optimism and happiness in it. The story is about a young girl named Clara. A guest at the family Christmas eve party (sometimes a relative) who is a magician named Drosselmeyer gifts Clara a magical and mysterious nutcracker that she always keeps by her side. One night, when she was sleeping, the evil Mouse King came and tried to take her to his kingdom.
Then, the Nutcracker Prince sprang to life and fought the Mouse King and rescued Clara. The ballet becomes even more interesting and fantasy runs wild from here. After his victory, Clara goes with the Nutcracker Prince to the land of magic and dreams. She visits the land of the dolls and that of the Snow Queen where she met snowflakes of all types. She also goes through the candy land and kids love to hear the sweets from all over the world that she met there. The beautiful flowers and the sugar plum fairy capture their imagination. It is only on the Christmas day that Clara wakes up to find herself back at home, surrounded by her family."
It's like a little girl version of Eyes Wide Shut.
In Greek mythology, a ten year old Helen of Troy is likewise abducted by a prince.
Ah yes, Helen of Troy, who was "the most beautiful woman in the world".
Helen of Troy was actually abducted twice.
The first time was when she was about 12, she was abducted by Theseus who wanted to make her his wife. He locked her up in Attica in Greece under the care of his mother. Helen was rescued by her brothers Castor and Pollux and she went back to Sparta. After returning to Sparta she married Menelaus and he became the king of Sparta. But it doesn't end there
The goddess Aphrodite promised Paris, who was the prince of Troy, the most beautiful woman in the world. Paris then abducted Helen (or perhaps she ran off with him, this part varies from story to story) and he took her back to Troy. This was the start to the Trojan war. Paris died in the Trojan war and Helen married his brother Deiphobus. After the war, Helen was reunited with her husband Menelaus, and she helped him kill Deiphobus. Then Helen and Menelaus returned to Sparta -lived happily ever after. According to some accounts, after the war Menelaus was always suspicious of Helen's loyalty. Was she seduced and willingly 'abducted' by running off with Paris? Or was it really against her will?
Obviously there are all sorts of parallels (more to Alice regarding loyalty) but in Greek mythology there is ALWAYS a generational curse. This generational curse goes down the line of family members passed down from parents to children.
The meaning of the name Helena: Shining Light or The Bright One. -
Barbed_Wire_Strawberry — 9 years ago(May 24, 2016 03:14 PM)
I believe the implication is sort of how Bill views his wife's sexuality and in turn how one day he will view his daughters (and modern life facilitates that young people learn about/are exposed to sexuality much younger these days, but that is just a modern perception that glosses over how things were prior to the 20th century in much of the world) - he denies it's influence on him. Trying to protect himself from the innate power to bruise the male ego and whatnot. It's particularly sensitive in terms of being a parent (particularly a father) as the cultural norm is that the man/father
owns
a woman/wife/daughter's sexuality - or in some sense has a duty to protect it. Which to some extent is true (only to the same extent that it applies to the mother).
The point being at the end that the higher you go up among the lofty circles of the elite, the more danger there is. Not to say there is not basically comprable danger at the poor end of the spectrum (as we see with Domino and a lesser extent (financially) Millich's daugher) - the reason the red heads are reoccuring is perhaps less (or equally, if you will) to do with Bill's wife than daughter. His notion of the 'sameness' of women is challenged when he is unable to 'split' himself in order to have sex with various women (usually redheads) without investing some element of personality and ego. That's why the Somerton orgy is something of a horror show to Bill and why he doesn't partake - look at the scene with Alice and Bill in front of the mirror - he gets off on his wife's reflection, and even moreso his own. He gets off on identity and ego, it's less 'raw sexuality' than a performance.
All the ritualistic/occult/fantasy stuff serves the same purpose in this film as it does in the Shining - a way to look at psychological/subconscious themes and feelings that one can't simply explain with a line of dialogue. I think performance is a key theme in this film - consider the orgy - the prostitutes clearly knew the routine, it was probably rehearsed. Red cloak knew the routine, it was rehearsed - and the aesthetic of a 'satantic ritual' is serving somebody's purpose, probably the way that the fobs who usually preach the 'good word' really get off.
Buy The Ticket, Take The Ride
