The plot hole in Roger's floor
-
pfgpowell-1 — 12 years ago(April 19, 2013 12:21 AM)
Bearing in mind that we are discussing a film rather than real life and in films everything is possible. I was watching another Denzel Washington film last night, Safe House, and yet again I was amazed at the speed with which agencies can get background info etc, where it would take just a little longer in real life, despite computerisation.
But back to Training Day: I agree with the original poster. Apart from anything else, once, in Alonzo's story, Roger has been killed, HQ or whatever you call it, would have been informed. Searching the place would not be top priority at all. It can be done in four hours time, tomorrow, any time. But then you can pull most films apart after the event. I just like to go with the flow. -
washcloud — 12 years ago(October 02, 2013 07:52 PM)
This was my clue that Alonzo did turn in some of the money. Alonzo only needed one million for the Russians, and probably kept some on the side for himself. The movie didn't tell us that he kept some for himself, but common sense will tell you that he did. $4 mill is a lot of money! Once he divided up some for the crew I always assumed that he did infact turn some of the money in since it was official police business. It was obvious to me that he did since the wise men and the Narc unit knew Roger was a big time dealer that had money.
Roger allowed himself to get close to Alonzo thinking he was a friend. Alonzo did this to know the ins and outs of Roger's business. Remember Denzel told Jake that he had watched Roger operate with immunity for years. I'm sure Alonzo never let his superiors know just how much money Roger may have had. He would be smart to keep that info to himself for his future benefit. The wise men and superiors probably had no idea how much Roger had. So, as long as Alonzo turned in a reasonable amount of money he was good. The movie did not tell us one way or another about Alonzo turning in some of the money for his investigation. But, just like I used my common sense to assume that dirty Alonzo kept money on the side for himself, I also used that same sense to assume that he did turn in some money.
Oh man, come on - please
Why don't some of you people get another go at a film you're commenting about, before you actually get into commenting? While Alonzo was "threatening" Hoyt, he did mention the amount of money that he had in mind to leave at the crime scene : THREE million dollars. -
pope_duke — 13 years ago(July 17, 2012 08:57 AM)
Good spot, brett.
I read the other conversation here, and I am not convinced this isn't a flaw in either the script or Alonzo's plan. Certainly, Alonzo isn't perfect, but that does seem sloppy.
I am not a police officer, but I know some frequent imdb. Maybe we can get an insider's perspective on whether or not a shot officer (wearing a vest or not) would warrant stopping everything as you wait on emergency vehicles and reinforcements?
If anything, it seems to make Alonzo look
highly
suspicious. -
KSzir — 13 years ago(August 09, 2012 12:30 PM)
Let's also remember that if there would have been an "official" investigation in the attempted shooting of the police by Roger, one of the investigators would have been Stan (from the D.A.'s shooting team) who was already paid off along with an LAPD Captain for Alonzo to carry out his plan. So Alonzo didn't care if anything went wrong, even if what happened changed the original story and an investigation been launched, the movie is pretty clear that Alonzo paid off top officials and I'm sure they would have protected Alonzo so they'd continue to get future payments.
-
subase — 13 years ago(August 14, 2012 07:13 AM)
Seriously are you guys kidding.
A simple cover story for that would have been they cuffed Roger but were unaware he had a key hidden. (not that farfetched for an experienced drug dealer like Roger) When they began to escavate the money, Roger uncuffed himself, got a weapon and fired on the cop.
Alfonso plants an extra cuff key and problem solved. -
brett-39-479061 — 13 years ago(August 14, 2012 08:26 AM)
Except that's not the story they went with. They could've come up with a million different cover stories to fit with how they managed to dig up the floor, even the one you just drew from thin air. But they didn't, they went with "kick in door, Roger shoots one of them, Hoyt kills Roger, backup arrives in minutes".
-
subase — 13 years ago(August 14, 2012 09:11 AM)
Yeah my mistake. But what's so wrong about looking for drugs in a house? Is that illegal? The department heads might have viewed them continuing to dig and look for drugs after one of their guys got shot up as rather cold and callous, but not illegal and nothing to be reprimanded for. Hell, judging from the crew they probably got a pat on the back.
-
transmentalist — 13 years ago(August 18, 2012 09:32 AM)
Who says they excavated the floor?
Maybe they'll claim that they got there too late - the hole was dug and whatever was in it was gone. They'll claim someone must've tipped Roger off. That's how Roger knew to start shooting when they came through the door. They got Roger, but his money's "long gone."
Truly, though, this is my own ex post facto rationale - it clearly wasn't explained in-movie or even considered by Alonzo, maybe not even by the screenwriters.
It does seem to me like a workable rationalization, as long as no one examines the police shovels for fresh dirt. And with the wise men paid off, who's going to do that examination? -
thomas196x2000 — 10 years ago(November 18, 2015 07:27 PM)
You guys are missing an important point here.
A lot of time went buy to dig up that hole. The floor beams were cut, and then the hole under the house dug up.
And, most importantly, Alonzo had left a PILE of cigarettes that he had smoked, denoting time. With his DNA on them. So basic forensics would have indicated a good hour went by. Unexplainable in any cover story. -
Redux006 — 13 years ago(September 14, 2012 04:27 PM)
I didn't even think of that, you are absolutely right. An officer is shot and down on the ground bleeding to death, meanwhile a suspect is shot in the chest sitting on the couch, and they continue with the search? Pretty lame.
-
apstaddon — 13 years ago(September 25, 2012 03:02 AM)
I hadn't thought of this before, but yes, this definitely does present a huge plot hole. If the officers go through the door, one is shot, and they end up killing the suspect, there is no way they start digging through the floor. THe floor ain't going anywhere, they've got to attend to both wounded parties. The hidden key scenario is ridiculous too as there were a large team of cops which would leave Roger no possible chance of performing any actions unnoticed.
-
-
christophe92300 — 13 years ago(October 19, 2012 06:57 PM)
I didn't think of this plot hole but when you reconsider everything, this is pretty bad and I don't see investigators believing this version of the shooting.
The first hole you mentioned actually striked me immediately, Jake was only needed because of his "virgin shooter" credibility, but since Alonzo associated with the wise men, involving the rookie on the raid didn't make sense at all, and therefore the whole movie lost its point. -
bishop0474 — 13 years ago(December 27, 2012 07:23 AM)
You've done a good analysis, but you left something out..
The Three Wise Men that Alonzo paid in the first place.
These guys were high ranking police officials. He had to pay them to get the right to take out Roger. Ostensibly because Roger was probably paying them off periodically so he'd be left alone.
The fee Alonzo paid to them probably included all the "administrative" stuff being covered up about his murder. Alonzo was corrupt, the three wise men were corrupt.
Most likely they would have or could have made up an anonymous informant who gave them the tip about what was in Roger's floor. That covers them going to raid his house in the first place, and the reason for them signing out the tools.
the only hole left is why did they raid him, then take time to dig a hole, which i expect the three wise men to cover up. On the dvd, an alternative ending has one of the three wise men asking Hoyt about the money at the very end when he arrives home. So they expected to get paid too from that heist.
I think the Wise Men's influence is what would have covered it up.
Good discussion though.