The plot hole in Roger's floor
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transmentalist — 13 years ago(August 18, 2012 09:32 AM)
Who says they excavated the floor?
Maybe they'll claim that they got there too late - the hole was dug and whatever was in it was gone. They'll claim someone must've tipped Roger off. That's how Roger knew to start shooting when they came through the door. They got Roger, but his money's "long gone."
Truly, though, this is my own ex post facto rationale - it clearly wasn't explained in-movie or even considered by Alonzo, maybe not even by the screenwriters.
It does seem to me like a workable rationalization, as long as no one examines the police shovels for fresh dirt. And with the wise men paid off, who's going to do that examination? -
thomas196x2000 — 10 years ago(November 18, 2015 07:27 PM)
You guys are missing an important point here.
A lot of time went buy to dig up that hole. The floor beams were cut, and then the hole under the house dug up.
And, most importantly, Alonzo had left a PILE of cigarettes that he had smoked, denoting time. With his DNA on them. So basic forensics would have indicated a good hour went by. Unexplainable in any cover story. -
Redux006 — 13 years ago(September 14, 2012 04:27 PM)
I didn't even think of that, you are absolutely right. An officer is shot and down on the ground bleeding to death, meanwhile a suspect is shot in the chest sitting on the couch, and they continue with the search? Pretty lame.
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apstaddon — 13 years ago(September 25, 2012 03:02 AM)
I hadn't thought of this before, but yes, this definitely does present a huge plot hole. If the officers go through the door, one is shot, and they end up killing the suspect, there is no way they start digging through the floor. THe floor ain't going anywhere, they've got to attend to both wounded parties. The hidden key scenario is ridiculous too as there were a large team of cops which would leave Roger no possible chance of performing any actions unnoticed.
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christophe92300 — 13 years ago(October 19, 2012 06:57 PM)
I didn't think of this plot hole but when you reconsider everything, this is pretty bad and I don't see investigators believing this version of the shooting.
The first hole you mentioned actually striked me immediately, Jake was only needed because of his "virgin shooter" credibility, but since Alonzo associated with the wise men, involving the rookie on the raid didn't make sense at all, and therefore the whole movie lost its point. -
bishop0474 — 13 years ago(December 27, 2012 07:23 AM)
You've done a good analysis, but you left something out..
The Three Wise Men that Alonzo paid in the first place.
These guys were high ranking police officials. He had to pay them to get the right to take out Roger. Ostensibly because Roger was probably paying them off periodically so he'd be left alone.
The fee Alonzo paid to them probably included all the "administrative" stuff being covered up about his murder. Alonzo was corrupt, the three wise men were corrupt.
Most likely they would have or could have made up an anonymous informant who gave them the tip about what was in Roger's floor. That covers them going to raid his house in the first place, and the reason for them signing out the tools.
the only hole left is why did they raid him, then take time to dig a hole, which i expect the three wise men to cover up. On the dvd, an alternative ending has one of the three wise men asking Hoyt about the money at the very end when he arrives home. So they expected to get paid too from that heist.
I think the Wise Men's influence is what would have covered it up.
Good discussion though. -
law607 — 13 years ago(February 13, 2013 06:54 PM)
I'm not going to comment on the possibility of plot holes, I will comment on the procedures as it pertains to tatical officers making an entry to serve a warrant.
- 90% of the time, a tatical unit (especially one as large as LAPD) would never perform the search for narcotics. They would breach the door, clear the house and be out of the area in less than 2 minutes.
An evidence recovery team would come right behind them and perform a methodical search for the evidence. This is a movie, they are a corrupt team sooo, I get it. - In the event there is an officer involved shooting where two people have been hit, the residence would be cleared of any suspects and that's as far as it would go.
An investigation, possible criminal investigation, started as soon as the first bullet was fired and the possible crime scene would never be disturbed including digging up a floor waiting for the brass.
Police officers would never search a residence for eveidence while I a man lay dead or dying on the floor and a fellow police officer is laying on the floor bleeding from a gunshot wound.
Sometimes when you want the devil, you have to go to hell and get him!
- 90% of the time, a tatical unit (especially one as large as LAPD) would never perform the search for narcotics. They would breach the door, clear the house and be out of the area in less than 2 minutes.
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The_Blue_Spirit — 12 years ago(April 17, 2013 06:19 PM)
Remember when Alonso says "Taxation without representation, they're ain't nothing free in this world." Yeah, well, Alonso took his million, split some up between the rest of his crew, and left the REST of the money to look as if that was all they found. He didn't take all 4 million dollars; besides the fact it would ruin their story, they would have had nowhere to put it before the cops got there.
Happy Birthday, my son. If only I could have helped you
-Uncle Iroh -
brett-39-479061 — 12 years ago(April 17, 2013 07:19 PM)
That's not my issue. The problem is that their story isn't that they went to Roger's house and found whatever amount of money. Their story is that they intended to go to Roger's house with a warrant, but when they arrived they were promptly shot by Roger, and called back-up immediately. Their version of the story means they called in "officer down", left that officer and went and dug up an entire kitchen floor in the time between "officer down" and the back-up arriving. One, why would you leave a shot police officer to go to something that isn't of absolute urgency? Two, how did you dig up the whole kitchen floor in a few minutes? (yes, in reality they had plenty of time to dig up the floor, but their story isn't reality). The only thing they could say is that the kitchen floor was torn up already when they arrived, but that would be a huge coincidence since they legitimately went there to tear up the floor, and made a show of signing out shovels, saws and whatnot from the police department to do so.
In a nutshell, Alonso and his men's version of what happened at Roger's house isn't remotely possible or believable. There are steps they could've done to fix that (i.e. bring their own tools and dispose of them before calling for back-up so they could claim the hole was there when they arrived) but they don't. -
Mike716 — 12 years ago(April 17, 2013 08:59 PM)
You're absolutely right, there's no legitimate explanation for this. After the suspect/officer gets shot, the entire investigation would have stopped. Hell, when an officer gets shot, the whole world pretty much stops. But after all it is just a movie, and it's bound to have a plothole or two.
What I also don't understand is how they question Alonzo and Jake after the shooting (I assume, since it isn't even shown on camera) and just let them go on their merry little way. I assume it would've immediately turned into a full-fledged investigation. I think at the very least, they would've been required to take the rest of the day off, after being questioned extensively, Jake especially. You don't just shoot someone on duty and continue with your day, killing someone in the line of duty isn't a common everyday occurrence, on your first day no less. -
The_Blue_Spirit — 12 years ago(April 18, 2013 03:30 PM)
Okay, well there were five of them that were completely fine. That leaves one person who can keep an eye on Jeff while the other four go dig up the kitchen. Investigators would not have known the exact amount of time it would have taken for them to dig up the floor, it's left to be ambiguous. It makes perfect sense, and is certainly not a plot hole.
As for Jake and Alonzo leaving after the shootout, it is clear that Alonzo has a lot of pull in his unit. He's in the top ranks, and he would have had authority to take HIS trainee away to talk to him. No one really crosses Alonzo.
Happy Birthday, my son. If only I could have helped you
-Uncle Iroh -
yoshiys-662-360391 — 12 years ago(April 18, 2013 06:10 PM)
In reply to AcesUp03,
That doesn't make any sense. The crime scene investigators would have said to them
So instead of clearing the house for other potential armed suspects you all just threw caution to the wind and all went to the kitchen where you could have been ambushed and shot because nobody cleared the house.
From the "officer down" call to the police arrival on scene it was 4 minutes. There's no way they could have chainsawed the floor and dug up the money in 4 minutes.
It would have taken them 4 minutes just to clear the house, and no officer in the world would be using a LOUD chainsaw while his fellow officers are trying to clear a house. -
brett-39-479061 — 12 years ago(April 18, 2013 06:21 PM)
The investigators don't need to know the exact amount of time it took, they just need to know it was impossible to dig up a floor in the four minutes between Alonso & crew arriving at Roger's, and the place swarming with back-up cops.
Again, pay attention to Alonso's story. They went to Roger's house with a warrant. They broke down the door, and Roger immediately shoots the first cop in the door. Hoyt immediately shoots Roger dead. They call in "officer down". Mere minutes later, dozens of police arrive, responding to the "officer down" call. That stretch between "officer down" and the back-up arriving unfolds in real-time, and in real-time, all they have time for is an argument with Hoyt about whether he'll go along with the fake story. By the time Hoyt pulls the gun on Alonso, the back-up sirens can already be heard in the distance. Alonso's story leaves zero time to excavate an entire kitchen floor, and even if it did, digging up the floor would drop to a very low priority after a cop has just been shot on the scene.
Let me make an analogy. I come to your house. When I get there, you tell me you just got home from work ten minutes ago, but you're standing over a fresh roasted turkey and all of the trimmings. There's no way you made that dinner in ten minutes, but that's your story and you're sticking to it. -
yoshiys-662-360391 — 12 years ago(April 18, 2013 06:49 AM)
The script writers screwed up on this part of the movie.
Alonzo said that "he had been planning this all week". Alonzo would have been smart enough to come up with a better cover story that actually made sense.
The writers over looked this screw up in the script.
Here is why
Alonzo would have told police that they busted in the door and Roger shot one of his guys twice so the rookie shot Roger and killed him. Then Alonzo would have said he called in "officer down" and the police arrived on scene 4 minutes later.
The head investigators of the crime scene would have later that day pieced together Alonzo's (supposed) story like this. Because this is the only way it could/would of happened according to Alonzo's official story.
Alonzo and his crew busted open the door, Roger shot one of his guys twice so the rookie shot Roger and killed him. Then all of the crew members (except for rookie) cautiously and slowly cleared the house in case other gun wielding drug dealers were in the house since Alonzo logically would have no way of knowing who else is in the house.
While all other members cleared the house, Rookie went to the kitchen and cut up the floor with a chainsaw, then Rookie used a shovel to dig up the dirt. Rookie would have to have done all of this in 4 minutes time.
The head crime scene investigators (who are not corrupt) would have known the story didn't make sense. They would have wondered why Rookie went straight to the kitchen and started chainsawing up the floor instead of helping his fellow officers clear the house.
Also no officer in the world would be running a LOUD chainsaw while his fellow officers are in process of clearing a house. The chainsaw would make very LOUD noise and would stop his fellow officers from being able to safely hear if there is other armed suspects hiding in the house.
When SWAT teams or officers clear a house in real life they are absolutely silent, they use hand signals so to not make any noise. No officer in the world would be using a LOUD chainsaw while his fellow officers clear a house.
The head investigators would realize
#1) Rookie would not have had time to chainsaw the floor and dig up the money in 4 minutes. Impossible.
#2) Rookie could have plausibly chainsawed the floor and dug up the money in 4 minutes if he was racing like a maniac to beat the clock. But they would know this wasn't the case though because a LOUD chainsaw during the clearing of a house would never be done by any officer.
If their story was the truth, they would have been clearing that house the entire 4 minutes. There would have been no time to use the LOUD chainsaw.
The head investigators would realize 100% that they chainsawed the floor and dug up the money and killed Roger ALL before Alonzo shot one of his crew members and made the "officer down" call. The officer down call would be done last thing and they would realize that.
The head investigators would have realized that Alonzo murdered Roger and set the whole thing up to steal some of the drug money under Rogers kitchen floor.
They would have realized that the "officer down" call was made after the floor was dug up. That in turn would mean that Roger was not killed as they busted in the door. Or it could mean that they murdered Roger as they busted in the door.
The head investigators would have realized Alonzo's story was one big lie.
Training Day was still one of the best movies ever made regardless.