At what point did Alanzo decide to kill Jake?
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lukekingjohnson — 13 years ago(March 28, 2013 04:04 PM)
Alonzo was a lowdown ruthless vato. He was going to kill Jake that exact way because that was part of his plan, He had been planning it all week after all. His undoing was underestimating Jake, which from what I saw, appeared to be the person who he thought would be the least trouble.
Jakes morals saved him. If he hadn't saved that girl from being raped he would've never of left Smileys house.
I think Alonzo played his plan out exactly as he had it drawn up on the chalk board. If he had took on a more corrupt officer, not Jake, then he would have succeeded. -
BrohmaBull007 — 12 years ago(July 02, 2013 04:21 AM)
OP, I choose #3. Alonzo had all his plans set in motion to pay off the Russians but then the department stuck him with some rookie.
Jake was a means to an end. He needed someone clean to pin the illegal bust and murder of Roger on. Alonzo or one of his boys cant take that hit. He had Jake sized up from the beginning all he needed to do was keep Jake from walking away before Roger's death. After that, Jake was expendable.
So I say Alonzo planned to kill him from the second he was assigned the rookie.Jordan > Kobe
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badge-3 — 12 years ago(September 07, 2013 06:54 AM)
BrohmaBull, I strongly disagree.
Alonzo knew from the very beginning that he MAY have to kill him but did not officialy decide to do so until Jake turned the gun on Alonzo at Roger's house.
I will try to explain in depth how this is true and will use facts from the movie to support this.
At the beginning of the movie when they are driving after having breakfast, Alonzo tells Jake "You could be number 6 if you act right". This statement supports the idea that if Jake had shown and proved himself to be more ruthless or in Alonzo's words, " a wolf and not a sheep", He would have allowed Jake to join the team with Mark, Paul and Tim.
Alonzo sees potential in Jake when Jake looks at Alonzo and says "I will do whatever you want me to do." This is exactly what Alonzo wants to hear and gives him a green light to begin testing Jake's vulnerability by forcing him to smoke PCP. (And of course to blackmail him later if necessary). When Jake first refuses to smoke the PCP, Alonzo demands Jake to get out of the car. If Jake had left, this would be the end of it. Jake had not witnessed anything at this point and they both knew if Jake, who was a rookie, had complained of being held at gunpoint by Alonzo he would be laughed at and probably fired. However when Jake gives in to smoking the PCP, Alonzo sees this as potential for Jake to be influenced by him and still become part of the team.
The second test and opportunity for Jake to escape the situation comes after the quick neighborhood shootout outside of Sandman's house. Alonzo has a quick discussion with Jake on the side of the highway and once again gives him the opportunity to walk away. Nothing at this point has been done which would be worth having Jake killed for. Again, Jake gives in to Alonzo's words and gets back into ths car. Little does he know, this was his last chance to walk away alive.
(Also keep in mind that Jake has PCP in his system at this point which explains why Alonzo is not threatened by the possibility of Jake walking away and reporting Alonzo. Alonzo knows only Jake will be negatively effected if he decides to do so by having his blood sent to the lab. The viewers are made aware of this later on.)
Now lets talk about the armed robbery at Roger's house. This is the ultimate test of Jake's ruthlessness. First, he denies taking the money. However this is not enough reason for Alonzo to have Jake killed although it does raise red flags for Alonzo. Second, Jake refuses to shoot Roger. This was yet another test for Jake that Alonzo was expectinb him to fail since he already had many concerns about him being able to handle the job. Again, this is not Alonzo's signal to have Jake killed. The last and final straw is when Jake refuses to take blame for the death of Roger and turns the gun on Alonzo. At this point it is very clear that Jake will NOT be one of Alonzo's pets nor give into his authority. He is way too much of a liability and can not be trusted. He has also witnessed way too much at this point to walk away alive. Alonzo's now knows he has to get rid of Jake. "I've been planning this all week, son." Little does Jake know this includes Alonzo's plot to have Jake killed if he can't be trusted. The threat to have Jake's blood sent to the lab no longer holds any weight and Alonzo knows it would not be enough if Jake decides to confess what really happened. He only makes this threat because he knows it will shut Jake up and prevent him from talking long enough until he can get him to Smiley's house.
The reason why Alonzo rejects Paul's suggestion to kill Jake on the spot is clear. Soon after sweet talking Jake from the couch he says "In 10 seconds this place will be overrun by blue suits." This was not nearly enough time to kill Jake, set up a believable crime scene as well as having 5 different officers giving matching and consistent statements. There is also no need because Alonzo has other plans for Jake as we hear him confirm the hit on Jake when he says to Smiley "make sure that bath tub is cleaned".
The conversation in the car is more for Alonzo's own sake rather than Jake's. The hit in Jake has already been made but Alonzo still feels the need to justify his own actions and the reason he is the way he is. It is also possible that he still needed Jake to give his statement to the D.A before having him killed. This is suggested by the unseen time lapse and nightfall by the time they arrive at Smiley's. Alonzo knew if him and his crew were going to blame a rookie on killing Roger, it may raise suspicion having him killed before giving a statement.
So to answer your question OP, the decision to go through with having Jake killed was at Roger's house. Had Jake taken the money, shot Roger and/or willingly took the blame for Roger's death, he would have no reason to get rid of him whether he was a rookie or not. In the end it all came down to how ruthless Jake would turn out to be.
For weeks, Alonzo had plans for Jake to become part of the tea -
procreate — 12 years ago(February 01, 2014 06:59 AM)
just make sure that bathtub is clean, homey.
WOW. I had seen this movie a million times and this is the first time I pay attention to this.
I always thought that was something not related to the events comming, just Alonzo taking to the phone.
Having this in mind, then I think that Alonzo want to kill him before anything, since the beginning. He want to use Jake and then dispose him.
Jake said "I will do anything you want me to do", then Alonzo has green light, to show him how the game is.
And he gives him clear signals. Alonzo shows a lil and see how he reacts, and then he continues. Till the point of no return, when they came to the Rogers house and ask him to kill Roger.
Alonzo said "I've been planning it all week, son.". And that includes, making him smoke pcp to kill him.
All of these make you think that Alonzo was plaining all of this beforehand, more because the russians want his ass, so he needs money fast and someone disposable to complete the job. If Jake is good with all the stuff he does, then Alonzo wont kill him, because he worth but the kid was dead since the beginning.
BUT MAYBE
Alonzo knew the mexican's cousin. Thats why he leaves her to go. Remember when Alonzo said "Now, you say your cousins from where?" and the girl reply "From Hillside Trece!" then Alonzo said "Tell your cousins to get your back". He knows her, she dont but he does, more when she said where her cousins are from.
Then why Alonzo would kill him using specifically by those mexicans?. Why would kill him AFTER what happend to Roger? Woulnt be so evident that the rookie guy, who just enter to that division get murder? Woudlnt be VERY suspicious?. Just the same day of a big fish get killed a rookie gets killed in another place by some "random" mexicans?.
Maybe it was a test, like Alonzo said. If he survive to this, like he did with the two guys alone (he saw something on him), then he is one of the team, not yet corrupted but someone that worth to have. -
liquidsouther — 10 years ago(August 17, 2015 04:13 AM)
I think Alonzo wanted to kill Jake from the very beginning of his plan, but was not, IMHO, exactly sure when, especially after he immediately found out that this was no ordinary, corruptable rookie. I like to think that he finally set the things in motion after Roger's murder.
ALTOBELLO YOU beep!! -
ChocolateFrankenstein — 10 years ago(August 26, 2015 11:20 AM)
My guess is Alonzo decided to kill Jake when Jake first refused to take the drug money. Once Jake refused him a second time that was the last straw for Alonzo.
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness. -
jawsfan007 — 10 years ago(August 26, 2015 06:00 PM)
Alonzo thought Jake would turn, but after refusing the money and Jake not really going along with roger's murder. Before he gets in the car to give the speech, you can hear him talking to smiley "make sure the tub is clean. "
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Sturm_Liouville — 10 years ago(November 01, 2015 11:58 AM)
It was after jake decided not to kill the drug dealer and pointed a gun to alonzos head etc. You can hear alonzo talking to hillside treses or whatever in the car before the speech. He mentions to the person to make sure to clean his bathtub. This is where the gang took jake to blow his brains out with a shotgun.
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SirMozman — 10 years ago(November 15, 2015 10:58 AM)
Another one for the not taking the money.
Alonzo was stressed as hell and thought he was a dead man walking. Then when the three wise men said he could tax someone his eyes lit up and he saw salvation. As a guy above said, when Jake said "I will do anything you want me to do" I think Alonzo thought Jake could be corrupted. Then he saw Jake's fighting ability and eagle eye. He would be a excellent addition to his crew. The quickness and intensity of assembling his crew and the fact that Alonzo wanted Jake long term meant he took the chance of throwing him in the deep end and testing out his corruptibility.
I think Alonzo was so disappointed when Jake didnt take the money that his "I'll hold it for you" line was genuine. It was a big ask for Jake to take the cash when only knowing all of them for a few hours. Then when Alonzo shot Roger and Jake reacted like he did, Alonzo knew he had to kill him and that he was not going to be corrupted. He then made the call. I dont believe for one second that Alonzo has planned to kill Jake all along. It doesnt make any sense. Why have the fallout of a Cop dying on his watch and the beep that would have escalated as a result. If Jake didnt show so much potential during the day then Alonzo would have probably sent him home. Alonzo got Jake to smoke the PCP/Weed simply to stop Jake from reporting Alonzo to the big wigs for his illegal activity up to the Sandman raid. Jake knew his career was over if Alozon got him piss tested which he knew Alonzo could make happen with his reputation and contacts. -
moviefool09 — 10 years ago(January 22, 2016 09:32 PM)
Having this in mind, then I think that Alonzo want to kill him before anything, since the beginning. He want to use Jake and then dispose him.
BINGO. I almost think the opposite of what most people do- I think all day Alonzo was looking for a reason NOT to kill Jake and couldn't find one. He was going to do whatever it took to get out of his entanglement with the Wise Men and if Jake didn't help him and do EVERYTHING he asked, he would not survive the day.
"The future is tape, videotape, and NOT film?" -
helloweed — 10 years ago(January 23, 2016 03:45 AM)
Another thing we didn't see is when Alonzo puts the money into the blender he gives Smiley. According to the script that's the money Jake refused. I assume it happened while Jake was being interviewed by Stan. When they left Roger's the sun was still shining, but when they arrived to Smiley's it was already dark. The 2 locations are not that far from each other, so a chunk of time is missing.
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tueher86 — 10 years ago(February 26, 2016 09:58 PM)
Its very simple.
Alonzo had a plan laid out from the beginning of how he was going to use Hoyt.
His Plan A was always to get the money from Roger to save his own hide.
Corrupting or killing Jake was just Plan B and Plan C.
He spent the day using Jake as a pawn in his own greater scheme but at the same time he is also judging Hoyt's character and his value.
The pivotal part of the plot is the raid on Roger's house. This was the moment Alonzo used to determine if Hoyt could be trusted as one of his crew or dead weight. If Hoyt had taken the money and shot Roger then Alonzo would have no reason to kill him. In fact, at this point he was already impressed by Hoyt and if he had turned corrupt, Hoyt might have became Alonzo's favorite.
Once Jake proved that he was incorruptible, Alonzo made up his mind that he had to kill him to cover his tracks. The entire speech in the car was for Alonzo's own deluded visions and an attempt to keep Hoyt off guard until Alonzo can get him to Smileys.
By the end of the movie, you realize that Alonzo was merely a fool running around thinking he can rip people off forever just because he had a badge. -
noone1647 — 9 years ago(August 26, 2016 12:18 PM)
As far as Hoyt taking the money or not being a factor, I had always assumed that if Hoyt
did
take the money, put it in his pocket, then the Latino gang who killed him was just supposed to take it out of his pocket after as payment for the hit. Since he didn't take the money, Alonzo had to stuff it in the blender and give it to them that way. I had a feeling it was the same cash (Hoyt's blood money) it would either be on him for the gangbangers or given another way, but that is what Alonzo had that money earmarked for.
In other words, whether he took the money or not he was dead and that money was the payoff for that hit. -
hawkinssouth — 9 years ago(August 28, 2016 05:54 AM)
I think Alonzo was planning to have Jake killed, exactly the way he set it up. No matter what Jake did. Even if Jake had taken his share of Roger's money, Jake would have died Alonzo needed that money to pay off the Russians. Why did he keep talking to Jake? Not because he was trying to test him or turn him; only because Alonzo clearly loved to hear himself talk. He probably enjoyed airing all his theories to someone he knew would never repeat them.
Post-Roger-shooting, the story would remain that the rookie lost his head and shot. Because Alonzo knows Jake won't be around to contradict.
As another poster mentioned, it would be fishy for the rookie to be killed right after this big bust but how long would it take for that body to show up? And Alonzo can say anything he wants about that day with Jake, any story of how Jake acted. Maybe Jake was intensely remorseful about having lost his head, and he went off half-cocked into dangerous territory to prove himself. Or maybe Jake said/did things to the wrong people that day, and put a target on his back. Alonzo is King Kong he doesn't doubt his ability to bring this off.
So I think whether Alonzo liked Jake (and maybe he did) was moot; Alonzo had a plan and he stuck to his plan. It was Jake's luck that he rescued the niece of that Mexican gang. Dumb luck that brought down King Kong. Just my opinion. -
The Kraken — 3 years ago(September 04, 2022 10:05 AM)
Omg this is the best discussion!
The movie has excellent writing!!
I've often wondered that exact same thing. I think Alonzo decided to kill Jake after Jake still wasn't on his side about what happened with Roger. Alonzo saw that Jake couldn't be corrupted so Alonzo figured that Jake would snitch on the entire crew. He even asked Jake directly if Jake would take some of the money in order to make the rest of the crew less apprehensive about allowing Jake to live. But also, Alonzo needed Jake to get his hands dirty. Jake wasn't stupid though and Alonzo saw that. Even with all the talk about corruption in the police force and judicial system, and Alonzo trying desperately to entice Jake into the dark side of the profession through the use of emotional manipulations,, reason, logic and conversion, Jake wouldn't agree to steal the money and lie.
Jake still wouldn't help Alonzo even after finding out from the Mexicans that Alonzo got himself in trouble with the Russians. Cops are supposed to stick together. Jake was a rogue cop in my opinion. The dude was totally unreasonable. Jake shouldn't have felt sorry for Roger. Roger was a ****ing drug trafficker scum bag!
Jake wasn't cut out for the job as DEA detective.
Jake was a liability at that point. Jake could have them all lose their jobs and Alonzo wouldn't make his meeting with the Russians.
So, when Alonzo saw that Jake couldn't be persuaded, he makes his decision to have Jake murdered by the Mexicans.
Jake probably was Internal affairs the whole time if you ask me.