I don't like Kilmer, but there is one thing I agree with him on.
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SurvivorAlpha1 — 16 years ago(March 14, 2010 07:48 AM)
Kilmer gets a bad rap. The entire town treated him like a God, of course he's going to be an arrogant jerk. He had a job to do, win football games. He did his job and did it well.
Sure he took things too far and you should never talk to kids the way he did, but half these kids had been on the team for years and knew what he was about. If they didn't like it, they could leave.
Mox, on the other hand. I hated him more than Kilmer, actually. He was an arrogant jerk. I agree it was stupid to go to the strip club and stay all night when they had a game the next day. He was pretty much saying "I run this team now, a big eff you Kilmer". Sure he's a high school kid, but that's not the point. He should have known better.
And he's not a good guy either. He knew why he was going to Darcy's house and the fact that he went all says enough. Doesn't matter that he didn't do. He went there to do it.
I didn't like Kilmer at all, but I liked him better than Mox.
My Sig: Nothing here. -
MrSerendipity — 14 years ago(September 08, 2011 09:48 AM)
Yesbecause completely ruining your players/students futures by making them play through possible career ending injuries and threatening to have somebody's scholarship yanked isn't near as bad as taking buddies to get drunk before a game
Don't get me wrong, Mox messed up on a number of occasions. The strip club, reading on the sidelines and questioning the coaches play calling should have never happened. Mox made a commitment to those guys and his coach, he should've stuck by it. But you can't realistically say that Mox was any worse than Kilmer. Kilmer should've had his coaching license revoked for his actions. It is due to him and his training staff that Harbor won't be going to Florida State to play football. He attempted to have Mox's scholarship to Brown (something Mox busted his as$ for) because Mox wasn't listening to him. He'll be lucky if Billy Bob doesn't have serious brain damage due to the concussions that he continued to deal with and play through. Kilmer is a joke.
That's not opinion, that's science. And science is one cold hearted bitch with a 14 inch strap on! -
bubbles1461 — 17 years ago(July 18, 2008 11:07 PM)
You people are idiots to think that Kilmer is justified at all. A coach of high school athletes should never be allowed to treat the players the way he did, regardless of their shortcomings.
Did Mox make a mistake in organizing the party? Of coursestupid, awful, ridiculous mistake. Guess what. Kids make them all the time. The leaders of the team do stupid things like this all the time.
Nothing justifies any part of Kilmer's behavior. He should have been placed in prison. -
Yourfriendan — 15 years ago(November 29, 2010 09:15 PM)
In no way do I defend Kilmer when it comes to making players play hurt and injured by forcing them to take pain killers. Yes that was wrong and it makes Kilmer the villian of the story and rightfully so.
What I am saying though, is when you take out that part of it and the part where he threatens to get Mox's scholarship to Brown revoked, everything else he does it justified.- Mox was reading a book on the sideline instead of standing up and supporting his teammates. Should Kilmer have chewed him out for it? Damn right.
- Mox was calling his own plays, rather than going with the plays the coaches were calling. Should Kilmer have chewed him out for it? Absolutley. There isn't a high school football coach anywhere in the country who wouldn't.
- Organizing an all night drinking party the night before a football game is absolutley unforgiveable. Yes, players can get seriously hurt when playing on injuries while on pain killers. But what the hell do you think could have happened to them playing a game while drunk or hungover? Mox put the health of his friends in jeopardy to have an all night drinking party at a strip club, something he could have just as easily have done on a Saturday night when they would have had all day Sunday to sleep off the hang over. That wasn't being a leader at all.
Again, I want to emphasize that in no way do I agree with Kilmer and what he did. But a lot of what he jumped on Mox about I agree with. And in no way do I think Mox is a hero or somebody who has good character. He's a selfish punk with a bad attitude. He's only portrayed as a hero because he's not evil like Kilmer.
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ex250 — 17 years ago(August 08, 2008 09:28 PM)
I agree with you!
Really there is only one thing that Kilmer is doing wrong in the film, and
that is endangering their health, mainly by playing them when they are truly
not healthy, such as forcing Billy Bob to play when he was clearly in no shape
to play and giving Cortizone injections to mask injuries which jeopardized
their health and futures. This could have simply been handled as a separate
issue with the Interscholastic Federation considering it is against the rules
and every other school has a reason to call it cheating.
And I'm sorry, but all players complain about not getting the ball enough,
even the ones who complain that they are "dog tired" at the end of the games
from getting the ball so much. To accuse Kilmer of allowing racism to
interfere with his desire to win is a cheap shot, especially considering that
the point of the film is that he wants to win at all costs. Kilmer could have
simply been leaving Wendell out of situations where he might get hurt, which
is what happened anyway. How did Kilmer injure Wendell's knee? He didn't!
Other than that, Kilmer gives the players, the parents, the school, and the
town everything they want. The movie ends in hypocrisy when the players go
out on the field and finish exactly what Kilmer started.
I have no sympathy for Mox at any point in this film. He doesn't even deserve
to be on the team in the first place. Reading a book during a game? A
drinking party the night before a game? Not knowing the signals? Ignoring the
coach and calling his own plays? Making up his own plays in practice? Throwing
balls at mascots, or his father for that matter? What exactly does his father
do wrong at any point in the film? I can't even sympathize with his decision
not to dump his girlfriend and be with whipped cream girl. His girlfriend is a
high maintenance, whiny, stuck-up brat, and a waste of his time.
Mox enjoys all the benefits of being the QB but thinks its unfair and
sulks whenever someone expects him to take it seriously. -
ndhwn — 17 years ago(February 20, 2009 03:27 PM)
Seriously, if I was Mox's teammate, I would've beaten the crap out of him. If you can't handle it, get the hell off the team. That part about partying the night before was unacceptable. They lost the game because those lame fahks decided to go drinking the night before the game.
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McFly_2015 — 16 years ago(February 21, 2010 12:46 AM)
My main beef with Kilmers character was that he endangered their players; had Billy Bob play hurt, tried to inject the needle into the player near the end and knew of previous leg problems Lance had and never did anything about it. Also they do seem to be running up the scores on teams quite a bit but by all accounts, Moxton doesn't take a single snap all season until Lances injury. You can add the racism aspect too.
But anyhow Moxton is far from a hero for me. He showed no desire to play whatsoever prior to the injury. Anyone who's ever been a backup athlete in any sport knows that they have to practice and prepare harder than the starters because unlike the starter, the backup could only get in for one play so they have to be able to use the most of the little playing time they get. Moxton seemed to have the athletic skills Lance did but Lance knew the plays and the playbook better as evidenced by Moxton reading during the game. You ask any backup QB (or backup player in general) in the NFL what they do on the bench and the answer is take the reps mentally and prepare as though they are going in for the next snap at all times. Moxton isn't doing this hence why he didn't know the signals.
It's often a sign of disrespect when quarterbacks change their own plays in the huddle and practice without permission. Imagine Tom Brady going down and the backup deciding his play ideas are better than Bill Belichicks? Say what you want about Kilmer but his knowledge of football ws better than Moxtons.
And yes the strip club incident was another bad one especially when Kilmer continues to preach to Moxton to rest up. I'm surprised the O-linemen who were not at the bar weren't letting Moxton take a few hits on purpose.
You can go on all day about how Kilmer may have taken the fun out of football but if Moxton hated it so much he could have quit or played a less glamorous position.
I think they could have played out the hero/villain rivalry better. Moxton is no hero. I can't see him inspiring his teammates to go all out for him. They got some elements as far as Lances parents taunting Moxtons folks but maybe if they developed Lance into more of a jerklike jock and Moxton as a football star who doesn't act like one (not into himself, doesnt look down on others), it would have turned out better. Instead we find far more character flaws in the replacement QB than we do in the starting.
check out my site:
http://www.kwrentagoalie.com/forums/index.php -
Viltrumite — 16 years ago(March 23, 2010 01:18 PM)
I agree with a lot of what people are saying about Mox, but not changing the plays. It was a good call.
Mox's father was kind of a dick, though. Most fathers would be proud of him for getting into that one school, not keep banging on about playing football at another school. -
BettOnThat — 15 years ago(June 03, 2010 06:15 PM)
Reading some of these post I can't help but think a lot of you are in high school now or were scrubs on your football team. Kilmer was an ass for risking his players health over high school football, I don't care if it is the culture of the town. He blamed Billy Bob for Lance's injury even though he already knew about Lance's leg and saw Billy Bob was loopy from the previous play. Wendell didn't accuse Kilmer of being racist because he didn't get the ball enough. Wendell admitted to having big numbers in carries and yards. His point was that every time the team could sniff the end-zone he had to sit out in favor of a white rb or a passing play. Wendell flat out said he had a few touchdowns and those all came from big yard gains, he pointed out Kilmer wasn't talking to schools for him like he had for Tweeter, Lance and key players.
Moxon was an ass for taking three other players to a strip club and keeping them out all night. Kilmer didn't care about his players getting drunk high and stealing a cop car as long as it was an after party.
Moxon was studying during practice while sitting on the bench as the 2ND string QB that hadn't played a down throughout his high school career. Kilmer threatened to get Moxon's scholarship pulled if he blew the game.
Do you really want to compare Kilmer's actions to Moxon wanting to introduce some new plays and taking three players with him to a strip club? -
kyleb18940 — 15 years ago(June 16, 2010 08:25 PM)
While certainly Moxon did some things wrong, in the football sense, Kilmer was a bigger ass, as he was risking the long term health and life of young kids for wins. That trumphs Moxon's sins.
One thing that seems to get lost I notice is that a lot of the things Moxon did was so he could bond with his team mates. While the coach/player relationship is an important one, the players/quarterback one is just as important, if not moreso. Calling his own plays, the drinking party, had their downsides of course, but they also brought the team closer to Moxon, making him the unquestioned leader on the field, which is the most important aspect of being a QB -
rdetjen — 14 years ago(September 13, 2011 10:44 PM)
For one thing Kilmer is an adult and Mox is a high school kid. Therefore he is ultimately responsible. In the second place the man was abusive, it's no wonder he sat and read a book instead of paying attention. He knew that wasn't going to be played as long as he had his glory boy. He was merely marking time, his father was just as obsessed with him playing ball as the coach. He knew that Kilmer was abusive and simply didn't care. His theory was suck it up, I survived and so will he. So yeah, maybe Mox was wrong but he was a kid and got caught up in the hype of being suddenly popular. Kilmer us a jerk, pure and simple. He threatens the lives and health of his players as well as threaten to take his scholarship away. And I think his father is a jerk too. Furthermore the reason he threw the ball at him was because the father demanded he do it like the other boys father did. Only he had been insulted and mocked and called a chicken and that was why he threw the ball at him. Obviously he hit him on purpose, but are there that many people that can honestly say that they have never done something in a flash of temper after he has been mocked that way?
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nickarizzo — 14 years ago(November 26, 2011 04:37 AM)
sothe only way people see racism is by what Wendell said?
Most of this thread is quite ridiculous,but this part is even worse.
If you need to find the racism, just look at the beginning of the movie, during the first locker room scene.
Lots of butt kissing for other players, but to Wendell, it was "pretty good running the ball" and "really not bad, BOY". -
Nate8727 — 13 years ago(April 25, 2012 07:03 PM)
I really don't see how Lance couldn't play again. They act like his career is over. He's in effing High school!! Most colleges redshirt you the first year or two depending how good you are. He could of redshirted until he was completely healed.
It's not uncommon for a player to have an injury and still have a great career. -
Bernnard_Black — 13 years ago(October 01, 2012 04:34 AM)
Depends on how bad his injury was, though. If his knee was broken badly enough, he might not ever have been able to play again. In highschool, one of our defensive players got hit and his knew was broken. To this day, he still has a slight limp, and it's been a long time. He certainly couldn't have played for a top college team with it; maybe that's what happened to Lance.
Back to Kilmer. He was justified in some of his actions, such as calling Moxon out for reading on the sidelines, and making up his own plays. It's HOW he acted that bothered me. Hitting him with a whistle, calling his entire second string "dummy-o's", etc. Not good leadership.
I don't think it's particularly fair to say Mox doesn't support his team mates, though. Obviously they all like him, and play well with him when he takes over the QB role. Reading during a game isn't being unsupportive, in that situation. He just knew he was never playing (remember Lance's father, when Mox threw the ball to the ref, said that it as the only action Mox had seen all year). So he had no reason to think he was going to play.
Here's to the health of Cardinal Puff. -
jrtomasso — 12 years ago(December 23, 2013 11:16 AM)
"pretty good running the ball" and "really not bad, BOY".
Oh no, how terrible. How awfully racist. Jesus Christ, people need to grow some thicker skin. This overly PC, social Marxist world is getting really out of hand. -
T-eschberger — 12 years ago(July 08, 2013 09:41 AM)
Did Mox drag his teammates kicking and screaming to the club? No. They went on their own.
And can you really fault a high school second stringer for reading on the sidelines when he NEVER gets a chance to play? He wasn't supporting his teammates? What kind of lame horsesh!t is that? It's f-cking high school football! That's why they have cheerleaders. What should he do? Grab some pompoms and wiggle his ass?