Norris Packard
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The_Toymachine — 20 years ago(March 15, 2006 07:39 PM)
yea i thought this dude rocked, when they had this on toonami when i was in 8th grade i was blown away at how cool he was when he was tearing up the other mobile suits in that city battle, this was awesome
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dac287 — 18 years ago(August 01, 2007 05:47 PM)
Quite the badass. Too bad he commited his life of serving the Sahalin's. Guiness(spi?) was a crazy mofo and Aina was really weak until the last episode (or second to last if yuou count the epilogue).
Packard could have pwned the entire Earth Forces instead ofl etting himself go out at the hands of Shiro (who is a very good pilot in his own right).
Ah, well. Truly an underrated character, even in his own world too. -
dac287 — 18 years ago(August 02, 2007 08:12 PM)
We all lost respect for Guiness. I mean the bastard shot his own sister. He betrayed is own men and blew them up (starting with that cool general dude with the funky hair).
Norris was a good soldier. Unfortunately that forced him to be in a position to lose his life following his "king's" orders like a good soldier. But he enjoyed doing it and was glad o be Aina's right hand at the end and if it wasn't for crazy bastards like Guiness or the commander for the EF Forcces the ending mya not have had to be so bloody (executing EVERYONE in the Zeon and blowing up the base SE Asian EF base).
Alas. -
dac287 — 18 years ago(August 03, 2007 02:58 PM)
Guiniess was just too out there. Char was completely cool and I oculdn't not like him. Zechs Marquaise and Treize were both obnoxious and frustrating at one point in Gundam Wing (Zechs's terrible theory in the last 5 episodes turning him into a huge villain) but were still interesting to watch and even like.
Guiniess was just too much when he killed the general and then shot his own sister. Albeit he did have one ihlarious line. Shiro yells "I'll make you pay for this!" and Guiniess somehow hears it (I don't know why, as Shiro was not in his Mobile suit and looked like an ant to Guiniess, but whatever) and syas "I doubt thatBut if you come back to haunt me that would be interesting. I have always wanted to see a ghost."
That was a great dickish line. A good villain, but I couldn't empathize with his character though. Maybe it is because in the OVA's short run we never really got to see his POV enough. -
dac287 — 18 years ago(August 04, 2007 05:30 PM)
Guiniess had a lot of funny lines, I'd agree. He seemed to get off on the carnage.
I also thought one of the coolest badass images the whole show (besides Shiro shedding a tear as he blew that woman away and Norris walking side by side his Zaku) would have to be Guniess walking away from the dead scientist room where he dropped a gernade in the champaigne glass and is leaning against the wall as the fire from the explosion follow him from behind.
It made me almost forgive him for killing the Admiral (in "cool anime character" sort of way) but then he shot his sister and got the hospital ship blown up and I'm like "screw that, guy's a douche." That's the way the cookie crumbles. -
dac287 — 18 years ago(August 05, 2007 08:11 PM)
It was more sad and pathetic. He and Guinias brought it both on them. They were both bent on their ways of thinking and could not change. Sure Aina and Shiro could be percieved as idealists and niave in the last episodes (as Karen called them) but they merely wanted to do what was right. They weren't bound by tradition and sensless killing or the archane reasons men must fight (the heart of all Gundam shows).
I didn't pity either one of them. As much as I could find reason to dislike Char, Treize and Zechs as my other favorite Gundam pilots, I never really did (though I came close with Zechs at the end of Wing but he redeemed himself) and was so sorry to see them all go (albeit Zechs.like almost every Wing character, didn't really die in his death scene).
Oh well. -
dac287 — 18 years ago(August 06, 2007 01:13 PM)
Yeahbut Char was a badass.
You have a point. I wasn't sorry to see Char die in Counterattack, but I didn't hate him, either. It simply felt fitting.
YOu make a good point Guinias just wanted his machine to kill some beep and he didn't care what. I also agree the general was pretty damn dumb to order his sniper to shoot Shiro first. Why not take out the guy in the big freaking machine trying to blow you up and then worry about executing Shiro Armada? The sniper also got himself killed by taking the shot at Shiro and Aina as they were SOTPPING it so the Ginas could kill him, instead of shooting at Ginias and trying to help them. Not too bright. -
dac287 — 18 years ago(August 07, 2007 03:14 PM)
I do agree it was very refreshing to see a series where there were plenty of Zeon soldiers and officers to like. I indeed liked Norris and the admiral and two of the three unit that attacked Kiki's village. Sure Ginias was a crazy douche, but he was far worse than anoyone else in the show except perhaps the general as they were both ready to execute good soldiers on their side of the war because of personal prejudices (the general) or just inane logic (Ginias).
Zechs and Treize, eh? Ironically Treize is easier to explain as what he does motivates Zechs in his actions. I will say first though that the entire movie Endless Waltz is a huge bone thrown to the fans. I mean it has pretty animation and shows the custom designs that were originally intended for the Gundams and gives a better resolution for each character (except the Heero/Relena relationship which in the movie and OVA they leave up to the viewer, but I hear even that is given resolution in the manga). You see Duo working in salvaging and money with Hilde, Quatre continuing the family business, Relena grow up and becoming a realist trying to achieve her ideals instead of an idealist, etc.
But the plot was paper thin and had more holes than swiss cheese, especially if you compare it to the beginning of the show. They implied Zechs lived at the end of the show so seeing him around in a few short scenes was again (still "redeemed"), fan service.
Anyway (sorry for the length but this was a very complex/convoluted show),
Treize Kushrenada(sp?) was very much an idealist. he romanticized war and loved it, but believed in war with chivalry. He ultimately subscribed to the Machiavellian leader and understood waar was a bad thing (that he loved to study, though) and the best way to contain war is to upheave all power in the world and Space colonies so there would be one oppresive rule. He believed he must lead the world as "It's a known fact people like to be told what to do and they psychologically receive pleasure from it."
So he used the Romefellor Foundation (an aristocratic organization that would be like if all the coorporations in the world were run by aristocrats and teamed up into one giant lobbying company) as a member to rise in the ranks of an oppresive authoritative version of a UN-esque world government, the Alliance. The Alliance ruled the world but there was still squabbling and war within its nations who did not join and the space colonies wanted to break away, so their leader (the real Heero Yuy) was assassinated and the colonies were disconnected so as to not talk to one another again. this is when the scientists split up among five colonies and built five Gundams.
Anyway.back on point. Treize used htis to his advantage. He befriended a prince of one of the earth nations opposed to the Alliance, Milliardo Peacecraft. After the nation was invaded and destroyed by the Alliance, Treize let the boy into the Specials under the name of Zechs Marquaise and the boy wore a mask vowing never to show his face until he exacted revenge on those responsible for obliterating the Sanc Kindgom.
The Specials were run by Romefellor's militaristic group called Oz. Oz was part of the Alliance but was the branch that made the mobile suits and it/the Specials (the pilots who flew for Oz as they were considered a more competent side than the Alliance. Think army vs. marines type rivalry here) was led by Treize.
When the Alliance started moving towards peace Treize decided to make his move for power as he didn't trust the Alliance moving for unilateral peace and demilitarization through diplomacy and essentially a form of democracy. He under Romefellor's command started a coup in which Oz turned on the Alliance and took everything over. This included Zechs killing the men responsible for the attack on the Sanc Kingdom. Meanwhile Treize tricked the Gundam pilots into killing the Alliance leaders pushing for Pacifcism and peace and thus making the colonies look bad towards earth and pushing for war even greater.
This let his assistant go to space, Lady Une, who argued that the colonies are safe and independent from Oz and they should form an alliance against THE Alliance and prevent war. Once they agreed Oz started making them build mobile suits for future wars and thus inadvertantly was creating a nesting ground for more war.
Meanwhile Zechs reclaimed the Sanc Kingdom and was allowed to refrom it thanks to Treize. But he felt guilty for becoming a soldier and killing so many (including his own men) so he let his long-lost sister run the Kingdom while he lost a reason to live. He hadn othing to fight for anymore. He decided to keep being a soldier and fight the Gundam pilots and became obsessed with fighting and killing Heero Yuy (even though his sister was in love with him). He even disobeyed Romefellor and rebuilt Heero's Gundam so they could have a pointless duel and had Noin (as well as himself) kill Oz soldiers who got in the way. Thank