they INVADE china?!?!?!?
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Mandy_Whitsands — 16 years ago(March 14, 2010 07:25 PM)
if that really happened they would be declaring nuclear war 12 hrs later
sure, because nuclear war would realistically be declared. Preferably days in advance to allow for hostile nuclear first strikes. -
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Ironman54 — 16 years ago(January 27, 2010 05:33 PM)
And don't forget that the next to final line in the movie was "Theres been an incident in China" and then we see Redford scooting off in his Porsche. We have to imagine what took place/would take place next. Maybe WW III did break out over it - don't know 'cause the movie ends there. I would have enjoyed it just as much had the prison been in some back water area of a lesser country. Hell, its the guards that make the break dangerous, not so much the country.I'm sure this all was contemplated before production.I think they were going for the biggest, most irreverent ending. Redford just started an international incident and left the old gang hanging as he heads off in the sunset - off to the Caymans ?
It reminded me of Slim going down with the bomb in "Strangelove". But hey,what the hell do I know ? LOL !! -
ednalyn99 — 16 years ago(February 07, 2010 09:50 PM)
I agree with the poster who said that the incident would give the Chinese more leverage in their trade talks. I don't think they'd use it to advance a cause for war against the USA. It would be more advantageous for them to use it as a bargaining chip for economic negotiations.
As for Muiryeah, I like to think the CIA peeps finally figured out who was behind the whole thing. But in my fantasy world, Muir slips away and escapes their wrath. He goes on to have a peaceful retirement in some island. hehehe -
toky-world — 16 years ago(February 14, 2010 07:33 PM)
CIA covert op.
China would have a hard time making US take responsability of the attack. But eventually they would, since the result of the op was escape of Bishop.
China would withdraw (inmediatly) from the trade talks (US government would be pissed for this and would be on the look out for Muir's blood). Im sure that in that world the op would cost them in the trade talks(in the future).
BTW the movie is suppoused to be set in 199x since we see the electric guy watching Baywatch.
In no way would China retaliate with war or an attack on any US (direct) interest. Even now China isnt interested in a direct conflict. In short China would not attack the US for a single op of extracting a cia agent.
For chrissakes US did bomb (a freaking tomahawk)a China embassy in the mid 90 during the Balkans "surgical" attack. China did not retaliate then. -
scorp123 — 16 years ago(February 18, 2010 02:00 PM)
For chrissakes US did bomb (a freaking tomahawk)a China
embassy in the mid 90 during the Balkans "surgical" attack.
China did not retaliate then.
Yes, because that embassy happened to be in Belgrade/Serbia in midst of a war zone. Bad luck for them and bad aiming on the US part. They were p***ed off and protested and what not but other than that they didn't really have a reason to retaliate as their soil back at home wasn't touched and it was obvious that the bombing of their embassy was a stupid accident. "Collateral damage" as they say @NATO.
BUT:
Seriously flying into China with helicopters and killing people there within China itself I am absolutely positive that this would have more drastic consequences in real life. -
scorp123 — 16 years ago(February 18, 2010 03:13 PM)
Then the solution to the movie, the freagin' deus ex machina is an invasion of CHINA? the marines invade china and storm out an american prisoner? Am i the ONLY one that finds this totally ludicrous?
Yes, totally unrealistic. First of all: Anti-air installations typically have their own power stations, e.g. they are NOT hooked up to the civilian infrastructure exactly because nobody wants their radars go black in case of a power outage. And they'd have backup power too. And even if: There would still be the problem that there always are a bunch of autonomous mobile anti-air units everywhere on the country-side, ie. they run off their own diesel engines and thus generate their own power. So even if you managed to knock out the big long-range radars you'd still be facing lots and lots of mobile radars distributed all over the country side and they would definitely be able to blast helicopters out of the sky.
Why I know this? I served in the Swiss Army, in Switzerland's Anti-Air defence. And this was my workplace:
http://www.eme421.com/gdf35mm.html
That's a Swiss Oerlikon twin-barrel 35mm auto-cannon, firing at 1100 shots per minute. And it has radar guidance + night vision + laser range finders too. The radar box can be set to a 32km range, the cannon itself has an effective range (= it can reliably hit targets at that range) of 4-6 km. It's absolutely deadly for anything that comes too close, especially for slow helicopters. Once one of those Oerlikon 35mm's has a firing solution for you, you better be sitting in something that can shake the lock-on by doing spectacular aerial acrobatics and get out of firing range damn fast by hitting the afterburner . if you don't meet those requirements e.g. by sitting in a slow moving chopper that's packed with infantry chances are you'll be turned into shrapnell and hamburger meat because those 35mm HEAT/IE rounds have a damn ugly effect on everything they hit
Why I mention this: China has been importing those cannons and the radar boxes that go with them from Switzerland since the 1980's !!
http://www.sinodefence.com/army/antiaircraft/type90towed35mm.asp
So by the time in which the movie takes place (1991?) they would have already had such systems all over their country sides (just as we do in Switzerland).
So even if you cause a "lights out" on the big central missile radars you'd definitely be facing one of these mobile units which are scattered all over the country-side.
Low flying helicopter?? Give me a break. A quickie-look through the scope, three beeps from the laser range finder, and it's "bye bye" for those helicopters. Or I simply flip the radar switch and let the radar guys handle it for them it's just "point and click" badddaaaboooom, target gone, it's raining burning metal and red messy hamburger meat from the sky.
BTW: Germany, South Africa, UK and Canada and many other Western countries use this very same cannon on their various anti-air tanks, e.g. the German "Gepard" tank. This is highly sophisticated Western high-tech and NOT comparable to those useless Iraqi AA cannons that fire blindly into the sky because they can't see sh** at night (as seen on CNN).
So when it comes to AA technology in this very instance Western NATO nations know precisely what the Chinese would be using, because both China and NATO are users of the same Swiss Oerlikon 35mm cannons
Isn't neutrality fun? Making the world a safer place by selling both sides the same effective high-tech AA gun
(Yes, I know that OP wrote that back in 2004 and I know I am guilty of "necroposting" and so what?) -
lylesanford — 15 years ago(May 27, 2010 12:51 AM)
It wasn't an invasion. An invasion occurs when a foreign nation forcefully comes across your borders with armed forces with the intention of taking over your government.
The movie featured a covert rescue attempt something that has happened (and continues to happen) many many times in history.
Big difference pal. -
I_like_2_surf — 15 years ago(July 31, 2010 08:25 AM)
They didn't INVADE China, it was a covert operation, they happen ALL the time in real life, there's probably one happening right now. It stated in the film that Bishop died 14 months before, the USA would simply deny any involvement and because there was no proof the international community wouldn't do a thing. China wouldn't dare declare war on the USA, they'd be annihilated by NATO.
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The_Great_Pantubo — 15 years ago(August 04, 2010 09:36 AM)
I can settle this.
1 - Yes, sending 2 attack helicopters into a foreign country is an invasion.
2 - No, there is no way on God's green Earth this would ever have worked.
3 - Yes, there are plenty of things that would have worked, like dropping some Navy Seal boats 20 miles off the coast and having them silently invade, stake out positions, etc. That would have been both realistic and more fun to watch. But Hollywood insists that the hero must provide salvation instantly AND just as the clock is ticking down to zero. And that requires the Completely Insane Helicopter Plan because it is much faster.
4 - Yes, it is just a movie, and it's a movie about what Bishop has to do to secretly arrange a rescue. Not so much about what the rescue actually is. So the ending, dumb as it was, did not bother me much.
5 - Yes, if you want to deduct major points off the movie for the ending, that's entirely ok. Because it was indeed really dumb. It's up to you.