The only film I've had to walk out the cinema
-
bastasch8647 — 9 years ago(August 21, 2016 04:35 PM)
I was repulsed by Gibson's irrational indulgence in gore, but I was able to remind myself, "it's only a movie-and-makeup". My revulsion soon turned into anger at Gibson's borderline-pathological obsession with gore - and
especially with gore that is
not found in the New Testament Passion Narratives
.
Gibson added non-scriptural accounts of imaginary torture scenes, apparently because he found the Gospels' simple Passion Narratives far too insufficient for the hideous gore-fest that his ample imagination and wounded psyche were compelling him to create. Sad case; sad movie. -
marty-130-840283 — 9 years ago(August 22, 2016 06:05 AM)
Question: "Why did Jesus have to experience so much suffering?"
Answer: Isaiah 52:14 declares, Just as there were many who were appalled at HimHis appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any man and his form marred beyond human likeness. Jesus suffered most severely throughout the trials, torture, and crucifixion (Matthew 27; Mark 15; Luke 23; John 19). As horrible as His physical suffering was, it was nothing compared to the spiritual suffering He went through. Second Corinthians 5:21 says, God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. Jesus had the weight of the sins of the entire world on Him (1 John 2:2). It was sin that caused Jesus to cry out, My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? (Matthew 27:46). So, as brutal as Jesus' physical suffering was, it was nothing compared to His having to bear our sins and die to pay the penalty for them (Romans 5:8).
Isaiah predicts Jesus suffering in clear language: He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed (Isaiah 53:3, 5). Psalm 22:14-18 is another powerful passage predicting the suffering of the Messiah: I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint. My heart has turned to wax; it has melted away within me. My strength is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth; you lay me in the dust of death. Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet. I can count all my bones; people stare and gloat over me. They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.
Why did Jesus have to suffer so badly? Some think that Jesus' physical torture was part of His punishment for our sins. To some extent, this is true. At the same time, the torture Jesus underwent speaks more of the hatred and cruelty of humanity than it does of God's punishment for sin. Satan's absolute hatred of God and Jesus was surely a part of the motivation behind the relentless torture and abuse. The suffering heaped on Jesus is the ultimate example of the hatred and rage sinful man feels toward a holy God (Romans 3:10-18). -
mamu2 — 9 years ago(August 29, 2016 08:06 AM)
Satan's absolute hatred of God and Jesus was surely a part of the motivation behind the relentless torture and abuse.
Wouldn't Satan have wanted to thwart Jesus dying for our sins in the first place? He was just going along with God's plan if we are to believe what you wrote, ensuring his own defeat in the process.
The Bible is not so black and white as to say God = good / Satan = bad, and be done with it.
Anyway, the Isaiah prophecies don't appear to be about Jesus, but metaphorically about Israel.
52:15: so will many nations be amazed at him and kings will shut their mouths because of him.
53:3: He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
53:7: he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent.
53:10: he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
53:9: "He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth."
53:11: my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.
53:12: Therefore I will give him a portion among the great and he will divide the spoils with the strong"
How exactly do those apply wholly to Jesus? Especially 53:10. Jesus didn't have offspring and his days certainly weren't prolonged. -
Navaros — 9 years ago(August 30, 2016 09:19 PM)
Wouldn't Satan have wanted to thwart Jesus dying for our sins in the first place?
Of course he did. That is why Satan tempted Christ. But Satan's temptations failed. So after that point, he had no more possibility of stopping Jesus' death.
The Bible is not so black and white as to say God = good / Satan = bad, and be done with it.
What do you mean by that? God is and always has been good. Satan was not bad when he was originally created as the angel Lucifer, but he was certainly evil since after rebelling against God, getting kicked out of Heaven, and becoming Satan.
"Science creates fictions to explain facts" Gilman -
Rumble_McSkirmish — 9 years ago(August 30, 2016 11:34 PM)
God is and always has been good.
A bigger lie has never been told
as the angel Lucifer
Apparently reading the bible was never your strong suit, we've been over this multiple times, and every time your only retort is "nuh-uh"
Panzer vor! -
bastasch8647 — 9 years ago(August 30, 2016 10:24 PM)
Hey mamu, you brainiac you, Israel is not a 'he,' unless you are referring to Jacob who is sometimes called "Israel" as an alias
Hey Navaros, you brainiac you, Israel is constantly identified as "he" in Isaiah's Servant Song, and the "he" is a corporate identification of the nation and people of Israel, just as a ship is called "she" or America is called "she" or the slain slave Antoninus in
Spartacus
is called "he" ("He'll come back. He'll come back and he'll be millions!").
Get some education, take the beam out of your own eye, and return with some real knowledge under your belt. Otherwise, you're just foundering in a self-made Sargasso Sea. -
mamu2 — 9 years ago(August 31, 2016 06:29 AM)
Israel is not a 'he,'
See bastasch's response above. But please explain to me how these apply specifically to Jesus
52:15: so will many nations be amazed at him and kings will shut their mouths because of him.
When did this happen because of Jesus? Which nations? Which kings? Herod tried to have Jesus killed.
53:3: He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Jesus was welcomed into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday and thousands followed and listened to him. How was Jesus familiar with pain and suffering before his execution?
53:7: he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent.
In the Gospel of John, Jesus is certainly not silent during his arrest, questioning before the high priests, and trial before Pilate.
53:10: he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
Jesus had no offspring (that were written about), and his days were certainly not prolonged by being executed in his early 30's.
53:9: "He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth."
His grave was donated by Joseph of Arimathea, a well-respected member of the council and a godly man. And Jesus did violence when he made a whip and drove out the money changers and animals from the Temple.
53:11: my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.
If you believe that Jesus is God, how is he a servant of God?
53:12: Therefore I will give him a portion among the great and he will divide the spoils with the strong"
Jesus is only "among the great" and has to share his spoils? Jesus has peers?? -
Navaros — 9 years ago(September 02, 2016 04:13 PM)
52:15: so will many nations be amazed at him and kings will shut their mouths because of him.
When did this happen because of Jesus? Which nations? Which kings? Herod tried to have Jesus killed.
Your questions and statement imply that the kings must have shut their mouths during Jesus' human life-time. But the text doesn't say that.
53:3: He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Jesus was welcomed into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday and thousands followed and listened to him. How was Jesus familiar with pain and suffering before his execution?
Once again, you are injecting your own assumptions into the text. It does not say he had to be familiar with pain and suffering
before
his days of torture. And nor does it say that his execution itself was his only pain and suffering (he was tortured quite a lot before he was executed).
53:7: he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent.
In the Gospel of John, Jesus is certainly not silent during his arrest, questioning before the high priests, and trial before Pilate.
You are assuming that the silent moments as described in Isaiah refer to
the same moments
that you have randomly chosen when he was not silent in the gospels. You have no basis for that assumption. The text does not say that the moment which Isaiah cites is referring to the same moment that you happen to be thinking about right now. There were
plenty
of times during Jesus' torture days when he was silent.
53:10: he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
Jesus had no offspring (that were written about), and his days were certainly not prolonged by being executed in his early 30's.
You are assuming the text means physical rather than spiritual offspring. Jesus had plenty of the latter. His days were prolonged because he was resurrected from the dead unto
eternal
life.
53:9: "He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth."
His grave was donated by Joseph of Arimathea, a well-respected member of the council and a godly man. And Jesus did violence when he made a whip and drove out the money changers and animals from the Temple.
You are assuming that Isaiah is claiming that Jesus
went to
the grave to which Caiaphas and his cronies had assigned. But the text doesn't say that Jesus went there.
And Jesus did violence when he made a whip and drove out the money changers and animals from the Temple.
Only if
one uses the word "violence" in a very loosey-goosey, cagey, slippery-slopey, not-really-true kind of way. Although
you
are doing that, Isaiah was not.
53:12: Therefore I will give him a portion among the great and he will divide the spoils with the strong"
Jesus is only "among the great" and has to share his spoils? Jesus has peers??
The way you word your questions implies that by "peers," you mean that "the peers must be fully equal to Jesus." But the text does not say that. Yes, Jesus has peers. No, Jesus' peers are not fully equal to him. Jesus' peers include Adam, Noah, Abraham, Jacob, Moses, all the other Patriarchs, all of the prophets including Isaiah himself, the disciples except for Judas Iscariot, all of the Apostles, and every godly person who has stayed the course, obeyed God, and lived righteously.
"Science creates fictions to explain facts" Gilman -
knight-in-black-leather — 9 years ago(August 22, 2016 03:29 PM)
I can appreciate that some people find the violence hard to watch, but the film is about Christ's passion, which means "suffering." One of the reasons this film resonates with so many is because the violence is not gratuitous. Jesus was scourged (whipped with straps that had jagged pieces of metal or bone attached to them designed to gouge out the flesh) and was then crucified, so it would be difficult to show these actions accurately on film without being violent. The important thing to remember is Christ's love for mankind is so great that He would endure such pain to save us. God bless.
This is a faithful sayingJesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. -
uther8 — 9 years ago(August 22, 2016 11:36 PM)
One of the reasons this film resonates with so many is because the violence is not gratuitous.
Utter rubbish.
As already noted:
"Gibson added non-scriptural accounts of imaginary torture scenes, apparently because he found the Gospels' simple Passion Narratives far too insufficient for the hideous gore-fest that his ample imagination and wounded psyche were compelling him to create."
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free - Goethe -
marty-130-840283 — 9 years ago(August 23, 2016 06:24 AM)
Yeah. After watching a film filled with about 93% gratuitous violence, the True Believer doth protest too much (glad I have 'em on Ignore)!
it was a depiction of what occurred, from the Bible.
you dont have us on ignore, the smily indicates your lying.
if you had us on ignore, then you would have nobody to argue with. Which is the sole reason you post, to argue with people. -
uther8 — 9 years ago(August 23, 2016 09:42 AM)
it was a depiction of what occurred, from the Bible.
Then you'll be able to show us the passages in the Biblele where this gratutitous violence occurred.right?
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free - Goethe -
bastasch8647 — 9 years ago(August 23, 2016 02:09 PM)
Way to corner 'em! The other poster needs to document from the NT:
Jesus killing an "evil" snake.
A slow-motion fight in the Garden of Gethsemane between disciples and Temple soldiers wearing very silly hats.
Soldiers throwing Jesus off a bridge.
A friendly Pilate offering Jesus something to drink.
Post-flogging, the two Marys sopping up Jesus' blood from the pavement with Mrs. Pilate's help.
Little demon kids casing Judas.
An androgynous Satan and its infant.
Soldiers dislocating Jesus' shoulder while crucifying him.
Soldiers dropping Jesus full-frontally onto the ground while he is on the cross.
The raven that plucks out the "bad" thief's eye.
None of these scenes and events are biblical. Surely the other poster knows of the Bible's injunction not to add or subtract from its narrative. Sadly, Gibson does both, thus rendering him a blasphemer, and thus rendering the other poster a blasphemy supporter. -
uther8 — 9 years ago(August 23, 2016 02:19 PM)
Way to corner 'em!
They keep insisting things that clearly aren't in the Bible. Jesus in heaven with his wounds intact? I don't recall any such announcement, nor do I see logic in the idea. and of course all of the other examples you gave. I mean, such "facts" would obviously be verifiable by the Bibleyet somehow they can't deliver them.
Possibly why these liars choose to block me - when confronted by facts and calls of verification (and let's face it, the Bible is the only place they can come from) they leap up and down, call names and block you. Funny that.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free - Goethe -
bastasch8647 — 9 years ago(August 23, 2016 03:08 PM)
Those pathetic people are operating from within a system of biblical inerrancy. But what do you call an inerrant book which commits error? "Errant" is the first word that comes to mind. They are in a cognitive bind where their belief in biblical inerrancy is, tragically, coupled with their belief in salvation, which depends on accepting the Bible as God's inerrant "Word". Challenge that Word, and you're placing your salvation in doubt, potentially to the point that you lose it. Therefore they can't accept any counter-evidence, and they cannot honestly debate with others who hold opposing views - again, because to do so would automatically and immediately jeopardize their "Salvation". So it's easier to put posters like you on "Ignore" than to fake the appearance of logically and open-mindedly debating scriptural issues
-
uther8 — 9 years ago(August 24, 2016 12:16 AM)
So it's easier to put posters like you on "Ignore" than to fake the appearance of logically and open-mindedly debating scriptural issues
Quite. Upset their own personal equilibrium, errant and dishonest as it is, and they have to escape it. They know the truth is there but they know they can't acknowledge it.
The irony is when the bible commands truth, they are the first to actually spit God in the eye and ignore it.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free - Goethe -
Rumble_McSkirmish — 9 years ago(August 24, 2016 11:02 PM)
Oh yes, kibl went all dramatic flair when he/she/it started doling out the ignores.
Kibs was caught some time ago posing as a woman, then came out as a gay man, and when asked why he would choose a religion that says he's doomed to hell the crys of oppression and being intolerant to gays started to flow. Then kibs made the claim he was only there to share information despite arguing, poorly, for pages upon pages in every thread to that point. Kibs got smoked everywhere, particularly when it came to "Objective morality" and "unconditional love of god".
I think kibs is still trying to figure out why leveling Germany in WWII wasn't moral, but an accepted evil
Panzer vor!
