Jesus rose from the dead - but why no change?
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — The Passion of the Christ
bastasch8647 — 9 years ago(November 13, 2016 03:56 PM)
The "pre-Easter" Jesus was constrained by physical existence - he got angry, he got thirsty and hungry, probably got sick, got tired, ate, dranketc.
The "post-Easter" Jesus, otoh, was no longer so constrained, having risen, visited disciples for about 40 days; ascended to Heaven, where he now sits at God's "right hand", taking on the function of Yahoel, Yahweh's chief assisting angel who carried God's name and was charged with judging people's deeds; the glorified, risen, exalted Christ will, one day, return from Heaven, wrest the world from Satan's influence, and create a new Heaven and a New Earth. But most importantly, the glorified Christ - having been made coterminous with the Divine - from his own power and from sacraments like Baptism and the Eucharistand from the power of his indwelling Spirit, now dwells in the hearts and souls of believers just as surely as he dwells in Heaven.
The experiential realization of this state of affairs goes by several names in Christianity, from believers calling themselves "followers of the Way" to calling themselves "born again", to referring to themselves as adopted sons and daughters of God.
As with the question I recently raised about Jesus' atoning/saving sacrificial death on the Cross, so too, a perhaps similar question arises
vis-a-vis
the question of Christians not merely being saved by "being in" the risen Christ, but also of actual living one's life immersed in Christ/God/Spirit. "It is no longer I who live, but Christ in me," Paul said. "Take up your cross daily and follow Me". "They will know we are Christians by our love", says Jesus in Luke's Gospel. Etc.
Since Christianity is not chiefly a product of philosophy or intellection, but of supernal faith and divine love - of "life in the Spirit" - one would expect that the Christian life would be fairly easily distinguishable from that of non-Christians. But
is
it?
This is not an invitation to condemn Christians. I was a Christian for the first 28 years of my life (and I am 66 years old as of this writing). That's a long time. I was loved, nurtured, guided, and educated by Christians. They are not some new, rare, invasive species. So my raising of this issue is a genuine exercise. What distinguishes Christian attitudes and behavior from that of non-Christians? What does the "Born Again" experiece mean, and in what, if any, ways does it mark Christians off from atheists, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Taoists, Sikhs, and anyone/everyone else? Or is it primarily an inner process of the subjective psyche, i.e., the soul?
Christianity makes unique claims, i.e., that God sent an "only-begotten", ontological Son into the world to teach the Way, to establish the Kingdom of God on Earth, to atone for humanity's sinsand to dwell in believers' hearts and thereby guide their behavior. So how is this uniqueness reflected and/or reflected from this inner faith-and-experience out into "secular" society? Is this process measurable, and what effects does it have on societies in which Christians form a prominent part? Has the West and the Christian/"Greek" East benefited and been changed by centuries of active Christian presence? -
marty-130-840283 — 9 years ago(November 14, 2016 01:30 AM)
Hi Bastach, the change does occur.
In the individual person. You, me, whoever else believes.
In order to change a whole society, every person in that society, would have to be a saved Christian. As it stands, saved Christians are in the minority in society, despised and mocked (even on these boards)
Does that answer your question? -
Rumble_McSkirmish — 9 years ago(November 14, 2016 02:47 AM)
As it stands, saved Christians are in the minority in society, despised and mocked
Largest religion in the world with 2.2 billion followers that dominates like 2 hemispheres and heavily populates the other two
"We're a minority, we're so persecuted"
Get f$$ked. Seriously, get f$$ked.
Meanwhile in reality land the country I live in I have laws that effect my life written by Christians, educational standars lowered by non-evolution understanding Christians, and hell, am even barred from holding office in multiple states because of my nonreligious status. Many others here of my status have been discriminated and persecuted by individuals of faith and the government itself and still are, in some places receiving it because "good Christians", such as yourself paint us as immoral satan worshippers. In other countries, not being of faith gets you death. I'm just fortunate I live in a rather secular area of a somewhat justice seeking country.
You aren't a minority and you have quite a huge deck stacked in your favor. Screaming persecution because your opinions get called out or because you didn't get to the breakfast bar in time at your local Denny's is stupid and pathetic. You wouldn't know persecution if it took a steaming dump in your lap
To add;
Have you ever been shunned? I have, and it's not fun.
I went to a CW reenactment in Virginia. My unit stayed for a week including over a weekend (Weds to Weds) with a religious church service on Sunday which I chose not to go to. When asked why I didn't go I responded because I don't believe in religion and just would rather not be there. Within a day lots of people knew it and I started getting people coming to me trying to preach, which I'd just find some excuse to get away from. By Tuesday morning I had trash thrown in my tent while I slept, my campfire was watered out while my breakfast was cooking, my tent stakes got pulled which resulted in a kerosene lamp spilling over my coat, leathers, rifle and tent. By the afternoon I was left to cook by myself from my own unit. Tuesday night I left.
After that I had to change units because my own stopped sending news letters and wouldn't return calls. After that the passion just kind of left me to do that stuff any more. I had lots of fun years and times in that group, and left it because I was an atheist. But it's a minor black ball and taught me a lesson that I shouldn't let others know my stance in person.
Panzer vor! -
Rumble_McSkirmish — 9 years ago(November 14, 2016 11:49 AM)
Like I said, it's just a small blemish that taught me a lesson. What makes it float back up to angry territory is when someone that thinks persecution is having their opinions scrutinized and that their control over nations is discrimination against them.
Also, lots of confederates are racists. I dunno why it shocked me when I actually got to meet real southern Confederates, but yeah
Panzer vor! -
Rumble_McSkirmish — 9 years ago(November 15, 2016 09:13 AM)
Welcome to the club Bast, we've got punch and pie.
Poor Marty, so desperate to be right and unblemished he blocks people for simple slights. Truly he is the most persecuted Christian ever
Panzer vor! -
bastasch8647 — 9 years ago(November 15, 2016 01:12 PM)
Truly he is the most persecuted Christian ever
I guess soI can't prove it, and the news sources are inconsistent, but Marty Martyr apparently asked to be crucified upside down. When reminded that St. Peter had already done that, Marty asked to be nailed to the wooden spokes of a Viking Sky Wheel, where he was seen to be rotating in the air for the greater part of a weekto the festive, merry cheers of throngs of onlookers. -
marty-130-840283 — 9 years ago(November 16, 2016 03:21 AM)
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uther8 — 9 years ago(November 15, 2016 06:42 AM)
Cuz I wuz persecutin' poor Marty by making him read his damned bible instead of just beating it on everyone's heads
Same here! Seems to be a pattern! Just like Kibbles and Navvy
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free - Goethe
