Why are people calling the sex scene rape?
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energy8432 — 19 years ago(August 10, 2006 08:24 PM)
Rape does not have to be by "force" You can give consent to have the sex after being coerced. It may not be by actually holding somebody down and forcing them to have sex or threatening them with violence. Generally date rape is not committed by "force" but by the person coercing the other into agreeing to have sex by making threats (not strictly of violence) or making them unable to give consent.
That being said, I don't think that the scene was rape whatsoever. I think it goes along with the theme of the movie of beware of what you wish for and that your ideas can be clouded by your ideas of "right" and "wrong" Grace had this fine idea, fantasy of what it would be like to be ravaged by Timothy but then she realizes that he thinks of her as an object just like the slave owners thoguht of their slaves. -
paranormalentity — 19 years ago(August 11, 2006 03:19 AM)
This whole discussion reminds me of the 'Fiction' half of Todd Solondz's "Storytelling." To explain in brief, Selma Blair plays as a college creative writing student who, after ditching her cerebral-palsy boyfriend, has a one-night stand with her black-power creative writing professor. After the encounter, she recites a story she wrote for her class victimizing herself as a poor helpless creature who was violated by her strong and overbearing black professor. The scene ends with the professor and one of her peers in the class (who has also shacked up with their teacher), who explain the incident as a "Benetton rainbow complex" stemmed by a mentality revolving around "mandingo cliche." Lars von Trier seems to create a similar situation, albeit unspoken, in "Manderlay."
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C.S.Wood — 19 years ago(January 31, 2007 12:26 PM)
Kincajou wrote:
Timothy didn't ask; he just took. Again, a true gentleman asks or knows when to, "Take me now."
This makes no sense. A guy has to know when to "take me now" but if he's wrong and that's not the case he's a rapist?
BTW, when talking with a group of women, one of them told me "If a woman has sex with a guy, then
afterwards
(we're talking hours or days) decides she shouldn't have had sex with him,
that's
rape."
Also, if "a guy promises to pull out and doesn't, that's rape."
I think from now on I'm taking the Dave Chappelle route to sex: a signed contract detailing what's going to take place during the sex. I swear to God, if I was a lawyer I'd work up one of those and sell them. I'd make a bloody fortune!
As far as the scene in the film being rape or not, I couldn't help but notice during the masturbation scene, the announcer remarks "whether it was pleasurable or painfil is hard to tell" but I apply the same logic to this I've applied to other films: when a woman is typically raped in a film, she fights tooth and nail for it to stop. That didn't happen. No biting, no clawing, no wild thrashing. If if she had shed tears, though that's not a concrete sign of displeasure, might have been a subtle hint, but no. The always popular "NO!" and "STOP!" would've been pretty good hints, too.
And if my Human Sexuality class tought me anything, her "scream" was caused by her reaching climax. As most human responses start of with "excitement", then "plateau" (her forzen, "mouth wide" look would hint at this), followed by "climax" (her scream), then "resolution" (her little smile).
It wasn't rape and there's nothing that indicates such.
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C.S.Wood — 18 years ago(May 23, 2007 06:18 PM)
how many inches was the guy????
I didn't think to hold a tape measure up to the TV screen
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jigolomiles — 19 years ago(August 12, 2006 11:24 AM)
I agree with you wholeheartedly that the sex scene should be not seen as a rape scene. grace wanted sex with timothy as much if not more than he wanted to have sex with her. after he is a pleasing beep whose sole desire is to please. its typical of the racist society we live in where a black man having aggressive sex with a white woman is seen as rape. also her screaming has nothing to do with not wanting to have sex with the pleasing beep grace's facial expressions left it open to personal interpretation. i thought the sex was so much more or less than she expected, she had to let out a primal yell. im sure everyone has been at that point during intercourse when the sex is sooo outrageous you body reacts as you wouldnt expect it to. we also have to remember that grace in dogville was raped by the mountain folk. therefore her reaction to sex may be altered due to her numerous daily penetrations. finally when they wake up after sex in the next scene, they are cradling one another and she is smiling!
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jmota-1 — 19 years ago(August 12, 2006 12:51 PM)
It was NOT rape. Not one time did she say stop, no or dont. Secondly to the person who commented on a true gentleman asking wtf??? Let me get this straight so when you are about to intmate with a woman you stop and say. "Miss would you like to have sex." I am married man now with children but in my past single life I dont recall ever asking it just led to those events. AS are as the guy just throwing her on the bed and pounding her.That is what she wanted, did you guys hear her moan and scream??? Also she was getting herself off when she was by herself, why???. She needed some and this guy gave it to her.
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Kincajou — 19 years ago(December 30, 2006 09:25 AM)
The scene clearly shows Grace as being rather uncomfortable about what was happening. I'm not saying that she didn't want to have sex with Timothy. She could have screamed or run away from him, but she didn't. Again, because Timothy took it upon himself to initiate such an act without mutual agreement it's, as another poster said, borderline rape.
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Lizard51867 — 19 years ago(January 26, 2007 08:29 PM)
I consider myself a pretty staunch feminist, and I have to say that this was not a case of rape. Rape needs force of some kind; it can be physical, verbal, or taking her ability to say no away. I'd also like to point out that men can be raped as well. I think it's when people say that an instance such as this is rape it makes legitimate cases of rape seem less substantial. Did she enjoy it? It certainly didn't seem so; the cries seemed more from pain than pleasure. That Timothy didn't stop was a sign of selfishness and apathy, not that he was raping her. Her fantasy was of being the helpless victim of receiving pleasure, as can be noted from Timothy's dual role as shiek/slave; the actual experience didn't plan out that way. Did she regret it? Clearly, and rightly so. She was deceived both by Timothy and herself, and it wasn't an enjoyable experience. Did she deserve it? Debatable. I'd say no because the sex was, while not rape, a sort of karmic punishment, and I detest the idea of sex as punishment. However, I can see how some people would feel that her arrogance and mendacious liberal ideologies would warrant her some kind of comeuppance. In short, the sex scene was followed by buyer's remorse, which does NOT make it rape.
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Nylistic — 19 years ago(January 30, 2007 04:48 PM)
I fail to see how it was even borderline rape. And it didn't seem to be without mutual agreement, she was clearly going along with everything Timothy was doing. I don't know about your sexual experiences but I don't have awkward moments where one person asks "Would you like to have sex with me?". Things just happen. Doesn't mean it's rape, borderline or otherwise.
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filmbo — 19 years ago(March 27, 2007 05:02 PM)
Maybe I was watching the wrong moviebut the narrators dialog at the beginning of the scene (as she was being undressed by Timothy) referred to the fact that Timothy was proceeding with the sexual encounter as would have been expected of a man and woman during an earlier time [with the handkerchief on the woman's face]. Grace, being the progressive woman that she is, would under normal circumstances not have accepted that mode. But since she desired to have sex with Timothy, she put aside her personal feelings to be sexually satisfied. And the scream at the end would be the culmination of her orgasm.
That simple. No rape. -
catrina604 — 18 years ago(May 11, 2007 09:38 PM)
That scene was very hot to me.
Hugs
catrina604@yahoo.ca -
YoMother — 18 years ago(June 19, 2007 12:34 PM)
i let out screams like that from time to time
& theres no way that was a rape scenedid yall listen to the narrator? & how she remembered what flora said bout his old school sex techniques & how she left her progressive attitude @ the table?
more importantlywhat good is a narrator if he doesnt mention shes being raped? he talked right through the scene
& what woman smiles & cuddles after being raped.
come on now. -
missprincipessa — 18 years ago(July 30, 2007 07:30 AM)
Totally agree with jghitchins, there's no way the scen implies rape. Dogville is another story, but that's exactly the point, it's another story. In Manderlay, Grace has been fantisizing on timothy for ages and finally gets him (well truth be told he gets her) but she is willing. Like you said, it's bad bad sex, but she seems to get something aout of it anyway. lol
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malec3 — 18 years ago(August 06, 2007 01:00 AM)
Apparently the people who suggest Timothy raped Grace have never had sexual tension before. For all the interpretation on their relationship it can be boiled down to two people acting on the sexual tension between each other. It wasn't a rape scene or a love scene, it was a sex scene. Just sex. I'd delve into the idea that the visually image of a white woman being fed, not lovemaking, fed by a man who isn't white would evoke thoughts that the woman was forced but I'd be here all night & its late. If you saw the entire movie not some scene you downloaded out of context, its pretty obvious it wasn't rape.
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Byzantine15 — 18 years ago(September 01, 2007 06:40 PM)
yuhno, if I was a person who had actually experienced being raped, I might be offended by someone calling this a rape scene. The cliche "I felt raped." (and I've heard men use it too) gets applied to everything from an inappropriate sexual remark to getting a speeding ticket from a cop. Ridiculous! Selfish insensitive cad does not = rapist.
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