I never said what Tyrion did was smart, he acted upon feelings that had been built over years and years. The false charg
-
Marendil — 9 years ago(January 13, 2017 10:52 AM)
He sold a young girl to a family whom he knew hated his own and nothing else about them. The girl's mother was adamant against it. And the girl was murdered directly because of it. I don't see how this is any different from Viserys selling Dany or LF selling Sansa.
Another way of putting it would be 'he found True Love for his niece in an agreeable clime while at the same time he whisked her out of the capitol so she wouldn't be in the throne room about to be poisoned by the mother who raised the murderous dipsht who'd started the war that endangered Myrcella in the first place.'
If he's a villain, then at least he's the best sort that you can end up rooting for over the clueless 'heroes.'
'Honi soit qui mal y pense' -
willsons-2 — 9 years ago(January 13, 2017 04:30 PM)
Another way of putting it would be 'he found True Love for his niece in an agreeable clime while at the same time he whisked her out of the capitol so she wouldn't be in the throne room about to be poisoned by the mother who raised the murderous dipsht who'd started the war that endangered Myrcella in the first place.
I suggest that is THE way to put it.
"I care about the law. It's justice I don't give a toss about."
Cleaver Greene -
CheruthCutestoryII — 9 years ago(January 13, 2017 01:42 PM)
ps you're arguing for the sake of arguing. I would say 'typical lawyer' but that might be anti-pc or something.
I am not. It's a perfectly valid point.
He knew what Cersei would be like as a leader. He spent most of season 2 keeping her in check. He knew what would happen to the kingdom if she were in control. And then removed the only check on her for entirely personal reasons.
And how is selling Myrcella to an enemy against the will of her mother OK? Almost every other time we've seen a non-captive marriage the parents get some say in it. It is not remotely different from what Viserys did.
This isn't some bullsh!t Bran is evil because of unforeseen consequences of his unintentional actions.
He knew what he was doing. He knew all the relevant facts. And he intentionally went down the path that caused huge damage.
Take away the "biggest villain" aspect then. It's impossible to pretend he's unambiguous, at the very least when every action that happened in KL since season 4 is on his shoulders as well as the death of a young girl.
Most people thought I was a hero for killing Lydia's parrot. -
myselfandi — 9 years ago(January 13, 2017 04:13 PM)
You have to be doing the lawyer thing. You have to.
He knew what Cersei would be like as a leader.
Tommen was still around as was Kevan Lannister and even oh hey Jaime.
And then removed the only check on her for entirely personal reasons.
really? and his personal reasons for marrying Myrcella to the heir of the Martells would be?
It was incredibly typical to marry off the daughters of kings to foreign houses. That's one of the many reasons that princesses were educated to learn a lot of languages.
I think the board and the fandom are kind of lame when they talk about how eeee-vuhl Dany and Sansa and other females are. I think the same thing when Bran and Tyrion become the evil du jour.
The fact is, all of the characters are trying to get along during a time when their particular society is fracturing. Hard to be a nice guy under those circumstances. -
CheruthCutestoryII — 9 years ago(January 13, 2017 07:52 PM)
Tommen was still around as was Kevan Lannister and even oh hey Jaime.
Tommen was a child controlled by his mother. Come on.
It was incredibly typical to marry off the daughters of kings to foreign houses. That's one of the many reasons that princesses were educated to learn a lot of languages.
No, in every other freely given marriage we've seen (and in the real Middle Ages) PARENTS had a say. Tyrion stole a child who wasn't his own and sold her without her mother's consent. In fact, her mother told him this could happen. Myrcella's death wasn't some unpredictable thing. It's exactly what Cersei was worried about and Tyrion was told that. And he stole her from her mother anyway.
He KNEW the Martells hated his family and wanted revenge. He didn't know anything else about them to make him think they would leave her unharmed. Until be met Oberyn.
How is it different from Viserys?
The fact is, all of the characters are trying to get along during a time when their particular society is fracturing. Hard to be a nice guy under those circumstances.
Society wasn't really fracturing in either season 2 or 4. There had been some war (hardly unusual) but it was mostly under control.
Most people thought I was a hero for killing Lydia's parrot. -
Marendil — 9 years ago(January 13, 2017 08:11 PM)
No, in every other freely given marriage we've seen (and in the real Middle Ages) PARENTS had a say. Tyrion stole a child who wasn't his own and sold her without her mother's consent. In fact, her mother told him this could happen. Myrcella's death wasn't some unpredictable thing. It's exactly what Cersei was worried about and Tyrion was told that. And he stole her from her mother anyway.
You see the thing about a good villain is you can look at the same situation and say 'he rightfully removed the innocent Myrcella from the influence of the nasty vindictive bitch who happened to be her mother.' Kind of providing Child Social Services centuries before its time.
Unfortunately we found out that Dorne has nasty vindictive bitches just like Cercei, it must be universal on some level, who knew?
'Honi soit qui mal y pense' -
Leo_ofRedKeep — 9 years ago(January 13, 2017 10:10 PM)
Cersei was a loving mother and Myrcella turned out just fine.
Long may she reign
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com:443/data.filmboards/images/upload/BxJJSJZ.jpg -
Leo_ofRedKeep — 9 years ago(January 13, 2017 10:08 PM)
Tommen was a child controlled by his mother.
And Kevan Lannister had no authority unless it be given to him by said mother. It did happen in a limited way, he was made Master of War, but foolishly refused his chance of influencng anyhing by refusing Cersei's authority.
In any case, Kevan could do little unless allowed to. After spending his life merely helping Tywin he had experience but no following.
Long may she reign
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com:443/data.filmboards/images/upload/BxJJSJZ.jpg -
myselfandi — 9 years ago(January 14, 2017 08:00 AM)
This is quite clarly a troll thread going by the most basic definition of the word.
Yup. Soccersteve was one of the more rational comments in this thread which has to be one of the first signs of the coming apocalypse.
I blame Trump. -
-
Nightman_Trumpeth — 9 years ago(January 13, 2017 04:58 PM)
ORLY?
Martin: I've got to admit I kind of like Tyrion Lannister. He's the villain of course, but hey, there's nothing like a good villain.
https://web.archive.org/web/19991013131915/http://cyberhaven.com/books/sciencefiction/martin.html -
Leo_ofRedKeep — 9 years ago(January 13, 2017 05:30 PM)
The show is turning villains into heroes, this is something GRRM could not expect at the time. Ned and Robb Stark, Stannis and Renly Baratheon, Tyrion, Varys, Daenerys all are placed under a golden light in the biggest mockery ever.
Long may she reign
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com:443/data.filmboards/images/upload/BxJJSJZ.jpg -
Nightman_Trumpeth — 9 years ago(January 13, 2017 05:01 PM)
Tyrion isn't the biggest villain, but he's a villain to his own family.
I don't care what happened in King's Landing. Everyone there is a POS anyway. The queen of being a POS just happens to be in charge now. -
OursIsTheGOAT — 9 years ago(January 13, 2017 07:34 PM)
I think you're overestimating how smart he is or at the very least underestimating how much his emotions can cloud his judgement. I don't see true malicious intent in any of the actions you listed in your OP.
-
Wolfzbane — 9 years ago(January 13, 2017 08:23 PM)
That
s just bad writing. The Tysha reveal was crucial indeed. In no way is Tyrion a villain, he is the very personification of The Fat Mans favorite concept of writing about "the human heart in conflict with itself".
